Im interested in one of those new 750 things .

Nothing uncommon, believe me... I am not revving them up to the limit, I do give them the normal services etc. etc. And I am not the only one... Why do you think OCT is so busy in Germany? Just because they do Zane bikes? For sure not... Most of the bikes they repair are from Breganze...
 
I should think that OCT are busy because there aren't many local Laverda dealers. And OCT also work for countries where there are no Laverda dealers?

A lot of work on Breganze bikes is due to the fact that they're half a century old or more and that in the past, they have been subjected to people with two left hands.
I should think that most of the work of OCT being on Breganze bikes is a tribute to their robustness and to the fact that most Zane bikes have been recycled.

Paul
 
Paul, you are a true enthusiast. That is OK, I might just have bad experiences with my bikes and have seen to many break and fail so that I have to admit - my experience differs from yours... Nothing negative about it, just different experiences, right.

I would though suggest you never ever ride something modern, please. Returning to a Breganze will else create the question in your mind "Why the HELL am I doing this to me, please!?!?" At least on the first kilometers... After a while, when you your aking bones have been shaken to the max and your muscles relax due to the vibrations, you feel a bit more comfortable and then the sound kicks in again... and then you love them again... however, don't go to a modern bike ever again, you start all over going back to the Breganze... ;) Been there, felt it - several times...
 
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I have a 2016 750 Aprilia Lothar. I bought it new to ride to work.
It's done 300 km in the last two years. Like all modern machines, it's a right bastard to work on.
I will have done near 10 000 km on my Breganze Laverdas this year.
I'm keeping the Aprilia for those rainy days when I need to go into town since unfortunately public transport is not user friendly. And it's not worth much in case of resale.

Paul
 
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You have a bike from a company that actually killed Laverda and destroyed all moulds allthough people asked to purchase them??? How dare you!?!? :eek: I would NEVER buy something from them... :devilish:

;)

Just collected the Formula today back from OCT. All that was broken was - the battery... cost? 150€

Deep inspection of the Jota engine concluded in a damaged crank bearing. Cost? 2.000 - 3.000€ at least. If nothing else is wrong... Crank has done roughly 50.000km from new, roughly 25.000 since the overhaul (which did not include the crank as we agreed that 25.000 at the time of the overhaul wasn't enough to justify a crank overhaul, too.

So reliable, these Breganze babies, aren't they?

What do you think - can I ask Aprilia to compensate on a warranty base...? :unsure:
 
Dear all.
You have all be so kind.
I'm only tempted as I know it handles like my old kwak zxr750.
And that is worth a look.
Hoping a good onevwill be advised to me by you.
X
 
Laverdalothar said:
You have a bike from a company that actually killed Laverda and destroyed all moulds allthough people asked to purchase them??? How dare you!?!? :eek: I would NEVER buy something from them... :devilish:

;)

Just collected the Formula today back from OCT. All that was broken was - the battery... cost? 150€

Deep inspection of the Jota engine concluded in a damaged crank bearing. Cost? 2.000 - 3.000€ at least. If nothing else is wrong... Crank has done roughly 50.000km from new, roughly 25.000 since the overhaul (which did not include the crank as we agreed that 25.000 at the time of the overhaul wasn't enough to justify a crank overhaul, too.

So reliable, these Breganze babies, aren't they?

What do you think - can I ask Aprilia to compensate on a warranty base...? :unsure:
Click to expand...
I know more about medicine than mechanics Lothar so I see it like this.
Some people go to see their Doctor often because unfortunately, they have a body with problems.
For other people, it's because they abuse their body or are overly worried or hypochondriac.
Whatever, when there's a serious diagnosis, it's always better to get a second opinion.

As for killing Laverda, if you consider the Zane concern to be Laverda, I think that the delusions of grandeur of a Milanese textile merchant had a lot to do with it, but if like myself, you consider that Laverda died in Breganze, I think that the very expensive delusions of some in Breganze helped killing the patient when he was still moving.

I will have done this Summer alone, 20% of the total mileage of your Jota and it's never had an overhaul.

Paul

( It's certainly no use pursuing this discussion since we're both convinced that we're right only you're wrong. )
 
You may as well argue that (Breganze) Laverdas and Kawasakis are of the same genesis. Zanes have virtually nothing in common with Breganze bikes. Personally I think Zanes are incredible, but inherently flawed. Absolutely no doubt they are fantastic bikes on the road or track. But if I owned one it would end up with a different motor in it - and all sorts of other improvements. No point arguing about this.

I love the rugged, brash SF-based twin too - always will. I'll stick with that for the time being.
 
Seags
It's a long way for you to go to take up Andy J on his offer of trying a 750....
You want to try one a bit closer to home, then i'm in Surrey (and it's his old bike, so i'm sure he won't be too offended)...
 
Paul Marx said:
I know more about medicine than mechanics Lothar so I see it like this.
Some people go to see their Doctor often because unfortunately, they have a body with problems.
For other people, it's because they abuse their body or are overly worried or hypochondriac.
Whatever, when there's a serious diagnosis, it's always better to get a second opinion.

As for killing Laverda, if you consider the Zane concern to be Laverda, I think that the delusions of grandeur of a Milanese textile merchant had a lot to do with it, but if like myself, you consider that Laverda died in Breganze, I think that the very expensive delusions of some in Breganze helped killing the patient when he was still moving.

I will have done this Summer alone, 20% of the total mileage of your Jota and it's never had an overhaul.

Paul

( It's certainly no use pursuing this discussion since we're both convinced that we're right only you're wrong. )
Click to expand...
OK - let's see if I am so wrong now I have the diagnosis from the doctors of OCT...
-center bearing of the crank completely worn, which caused the noise (Crank has done a total of roughly 50.000km, only a few km on a racetrack and barely revs beyond 5.000)
-2 bronce bushes in the gear box are worn
-head needs a complete overhaul as valves have stretched and the gasket-surface is so much out that the head gasket leaked oil
-cam-buckets - all though to less tightened - have sunk into the head

No word yet about the crank itself, as it is not yet apart.

Good news: liners and pistons (roughly 25.000km old) are in pretty good shape and the cams ran freely. The rest needs a looooot of work.

High quality, unbreakable engines, eh? :sneaky: yeaaaahhh....
 
Laverdalothar said:
OK - let's see if I am so wrong now I have the diagnosis from the doctors of OCT...
-center bearing of the crank completely worn, which caused the noise (Crank has done a total of roughly 50.000km, only a few km on a racetrack and barely revs beyond 5.000)
-2 bronce bushes in the gear box are worn
-head needs a complete overhaul as valves have stretched and the gasket-surface is so much out that the head gasket leaked oil
-cam-buckets - all though to less tightened - have sunk into the head

No word yet about the crank itself, as it is not yet apart.

Good news: liners and pistons (roughly 25.000km old) are in pretty good shape and the cams ran freely. The rest needs a looooot of work.

High quality, unbreakable engines, eh? :sneaky: yeaaaahhh....
Click to expand...
Well apart from the bronze bushes which you wouldn't have known if you hadn't taken the thing apart, something is very wrong.

Paul
 
Laverdalothar said:
OK - let's see if I am so wrong now I have the diagnosis from the doctors of OCT...
-center bearing of the crank completely worn, which caused the noise (Crank has done a total of roughly 50.000km, only a few km on a racetrack and barely revs beyond 5.000)
-2 bronce bushes in the gear box are worn
-head needs a complete overhaul as valves have stretched and the gasket-surface is so much out that the head gasket leaked oil
-cam-buckets - all though to less tightened - have sunk into the head

No word yet about the crank itself, as it is not yet apart.

Good news: liners and pistons (roughly 25.000km old) are in pretty good shape and the cams ran freely. The rest needs a looooot of work.

High quality, unbreakable engines, eh? :sneaky: yeaaaahhh....
Click to expand...
The funny thing is Lothar you are so particular with your engines but I just think leave well alone, so that's what I do. I don't seem to have any more problems than you do. The bikes don't need to be perfect, I usually ask myself how much use am I going to get out of them before I'm past my sell by date and so I don't worry too much as long as they perform reasonably well. I don't even care if they are showing signs of their age visually either, I used to but now I think cosmetics is wasted money beyond a certain point. I was watching my rev counter doing the fandango the other day and I thought why bother fixing it, it doesn't matter. I'm waiting for a rod to come through the front of my 3C engine anytime now after all the stories but probably it won't so why worry?
 
You may have put the mokka on your engine Pat. Talking about a conrod like that is like an invitation for one to pop it’s head out to see what all the fuss is about….

Speaking of, I wonder how Piets racers crankcase repair is going?
 
Unfortunately, no progress Chris. Hoping to get stuck into it during the coming winter, my limited resources require a lot of thought before cutting any metal, really, really don't want to fuck it up... again.

piet
 
to my experience, this is not uncommon...
pf1 said:
The funny thing is Lothar you are so particular with your engines but I just think leave well alone, so that's what I do. I don't seem to have any more problems than you do. The bikes don't need to be perfect, I usually ask myself how much use am I going to get out of them before I'm past my sell by date and so I don't worry too much as long as they perform reasonably well. I don't even care if they are showing signs of their age visually either, I used to but now I think cosmetics is wasted money beyond a certain point. I was watching my rev counter doing the fandango the other day and I thought why bother fixing it, it doesn't matter. I'm waiting for a rod to come through the front of my 3C engine anytime now after all the stories but probably it won't so why worry?
Click to expand...
Well - my bikes are for sure no showroom-queens. They get used and I restored both (the Jota 20 years ago, the 1000 SFC 2-3 years ago). I appreciate originality but don't want to find myself (anymore) laying on the ground because 70's technology isn't offering sufficient security. Also, I am not willing to accept rough running or boring acceleration, wooden brakes, stiff and bad handling etc. Comparing a well sorted 750 S Formula with a 70's Laverda Triple shows the gap in all these points: 60 kilos more weight, 20 hp less, 20Nm less, half the size of the tires almost etc. etc.. Not bad bikes, just not my cup of tea in original state. I wanted my bikes always to work as I wanted them, not as missing know how of the 60's or 70's dictated them to be.

You could assume that the modifications I did have caused the issues. Personally, I doubt that. The capathity equals the original 1200cc Laverda, the Head is a 1000 SFC head on the Jota, 4/C cams. Compression isn't really extreme (10:1, just slightly above what Laverda did). Also I doubt that the center bearing gave up due to more power. Rods and Pistons look good... Bushes on 2 gears - OK, that could have to do with more power. But the rest?

Get me right: I love my bikes. I am just not blind to shortcomings and that also those bikes break. To get back to the original threat: Would I have invested into a Zane what I have already invested into the Breganze bikes, I am pretty sure the Zane would be bulit-proof, handle and break much better and outperforme any Breganze bike... I am not giving up on the Breganzes though, as the sound, the vibrations, the look etc. simply amazes me. However, I also love the Formula. Just a great bike, just like Breganze bikes are, too! But different in almost any perspective.
 
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