Jota 120 info please

Laverdian said:
From your description it sounds like the bike recently up on eBay for sale as mileage stated was 35,000kms and located in Norfolk.
Cosmetically it would best be described as shabby and I would try and corroborate documented history with condition. I’m skeptical this is genuine if it’s the same bike. The bike I’m thinking about was owned by Ronnie Graves and maintained by Ralph at Motalia. If this is the bike then maybe some members can tell you more. It does however have the original Jota 120 hump seat with the unique seat cover.
Other than the normal wear and tear items, engine rattles and smokey exhaust, pay attention to the engine rubber mounts, these may have some surface crazing but shouldn’t be cracked. The lower rear right mount often suffers from both final drive load and contamination from leaking brake fluid and engine oil. When ridden the engine should feel smooth and free of vibs. The Jota 120, in good mechanical order, is an excellent bike but don’t over pay for a bike with dubious history as it could get very expensive by the time it’s put right.
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Thanks, interesting. When you say you're sceptical as to its provenance, I presume that the frame and engine numbers would indicate genuine or otherwise? I'll make a note of these tomorrow. If we are talking about the same bike, do you (or does anyone else reading this) know more? I don't want to buy something that's not what it's described as.
 
Tigerville said:
Thanks, interesting. When you say you're sceptical as to its provenance, I presume that the frame and engine numbers would indicate genuine or otherwise? I'll make a note of these tomorrow. If we are talking about the same bike, do you (or does anyone else reading this) know more? I don't want to buy something that's not what it's described as.
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By skeptical I meant the mileage claimed didn‘t reflect the condition. Of course it might not be the same bike but two Jota 120’s popping up for sale in Norfolk within the past two weeks is a bit if a coincidence. That bike was priced at £9250.
Best ask lots of questions and see if there are documents or history to back up the seller’s claims. Also check the crankcase around tge final drive chain to confirm there has been no damage or weld repairs from a flaying broken chain. If you’re in no rush, post up some photographs and you’re likely to get some well informed opinions on here.
 
I bought my 180 23 years ago..looked great..wasnt! Its sorted now( er, within the last few weeks!) but tbh if I were buying any 40 yr old bike now i would have a full engine strip and rebuild and while pricey that would save time and money in the long run. From the crank, mains,to bent rods, to clutch runners, cam chain, tensioners,cam blocks, valves, primary chain, carbs ignition, theres a lot to these things. The most important thing is who you entrust the work to, and there is a diminishing band of true engineers who know these bikes, and they are in demand so the waiting time is a royal pain.
 
Do these engines have a crankshaft sludge trap, like many Brit bikes? That's one of the main factors to bear in mind when buying an unknown mileage / history Triumph twin, ie: stripping the engine completely to remove the crankshaft and check the sludge trap - it is major work! If Laverda triples have a sludge trap and this one has no definite evidence of it having been checked and cleaned within a reasonable number of miles, it will influence my decision quite heavily. I'm hoping the answer is that they don't have one...
 
sorry but they do! actually two of, they are located on the crank and take the form of centrifugal tin oil slingers, they can be cleaned out if the motor is stripped, but much better to remove them (factory crimped on) and replace with new, they do have a very long life 80 or 100,000 miles perhaps, the frequency of oil changing and type changes this, a detergent oil (hence my preference for a diesel suitable type) is better as dirt can be suspended in the fluid, the centrifugal "slingers" as they are generally known take the form of seperating and retaining solids even small ones, but as I say a very long life between clean outs and could even be the same as crank life, not the same worry as Triumph type and BSA type (which I have experience of) there is a "rock catcher" mesh in the sump plate and on 120's this is finer than on 180's, not sure about the transitional Jota 120, but......... incompatible oils can cause a build up of fluff around this strainer, no one has logged the types that do not like each other, my advice here is to change it, using your chosen type, then change it again at about 70 or 80 miles and see if there is any build up of what looks like very black oily cotton wool, (using at all times the same brand/grade of oil) if you see none, no dramas, if you see some, even small quantities change again after another 70 or 80 miles and check again, you are done when the strainer is seen clear, quite rare but a short oil change never does any harm.
but....

"If I can expect 40+mpg with a 4 1/2 gallon tank"

its certainly not a 4 1/2 gallon tank no matter what you read, more like 18 litre and a bit maybe, and 40+ MPG is also not terribly likely, it took me years to get anywhere near that with TOG at motorway cruising speeds, and I burnt out pistons trying!
CLEM
 
CLEMTOG said:
sorry but they do! actually two of, they are located on the crank and take the form of centrifugal tin oil slingers, they can be cleaned out if the motor is stripped, but much better to remove them (factory crimped on) and replace with new, they do have a very long life 80 or 100,000 miles perhaps, the frequency of oil changing and type changes this, a detergent oil (hence my preference for a diesel suitable type) is better as dirt can be suspended in the fluid, the centrifugal "slingers" as they are generally known take the form of seperating and retaining solids even small ones, but as I say a very long life between clean outs and could even be the same as crank life, not the same worry as Triumph type and BSA type (which I have experience of) there is a "rock catcher" mesh in the sump plate and on 120's this is finer than on 180's, not sure about the transitional Jota 120, but......... incompatible oils can cause a build up of fluff around this strainer, no one has logged the types that do not like each other, my advice here is to change it, using your chosen type, then change it again at about 70 or 80 miles and see if there is any build up of what looks like very black oily cotton wool, (using at all times the same brand/grade of oil) if you see none, no dramas, if you see some, even small quantities change again after another 70 or 80 miles and check again, you are done when the strainer is seen clear, quite rare but a short oil change never does any harm.
but....

"If I can expect 40+mpg with a 4 1/2 gallon tank"

its certainly not a 4 1/2 gallon tank no matter what you read, more like 18 litre and a bit maybe, and 40+ MPG is also not terribly likely, it took me years to get anywhere near that with TOG at motorway cruising speeds, and I burnt out pistons trying!
CLEM
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That's useful to know, thanks. I will be as sure as I can to verify the true mileage and all service history.
 
There's nothing to particularly focus on apart from usual due diligence when buying a 40 year old bike!

Engine should start readily and tickover evenly when warm without smoking when revved. No rattles or clunks from the primary chaincase or cambox. Primary rattle will reduce when clutch operated. Typically replacing clutch rubbers will quieten things.

No leaks from hydraulic clutch slave cylinder (paint flakes off on frame rail at bottom of alloy cover if long term). Check state of fluid in reservoirs... gives a clue on routine servicing frequency. Also engine oil via dipstick. Level is checked with it unscrewed dangling vertically. Never overfill.
Check swing arm for play. Wheel rims for damage. Tyre age and condition. Brake operation. Slop in controls and linkages. Be interesting to see any service records / receipt for primary and cam chain replacement. Ditto valve shimming. You can visually inspect drive chain and rear sprocket.
Obviously check all electrics. Check under the seat for condition of battery and connections. Horns prone to failing due to spray from front wheel.
Front fork leg condition and operation. Smooth turning from lock to lock.

The Jota 120 is reputed to be the factory test rider's favourite model! Good hunting 😊
 
As Clem says, they do. And 20 years ago Clem took me to a very well know crank rebuilder. And it turns out that while he rebuilt the crank he didnt clean the sludge traps!! Discovered recently when full to overload ..near disaster, and not knowing about such things I hadnt thought to ask/ check , or been advised to...Now The crank is fully rebuilt again, with new bespoke Arrow rods. So, again, its very much checking what can be proved to have been done...and also by Whom!!
 
Paul Marx said:
If you know Triumphs and intend going to Turkey and coming back on the bike, get another Triumph.
Paul
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I don't need another one - still have my old one, and the thought of using it is tempting I must admit. But I also like the idea of a Jota, always have. I doubt it will be a sensible purchase but if I wanted to be sensible I'd get some modern Japanese thing or a giant BMW
 
Tigerville said:
I don't need another one - still have my old one, and the thought of using it is tempting I must admit. But I also like the idea of a Jota, always have. I doubt it will be a sensible purchase but if I wanted to be sensible I'd get some modern Japanese thing or a giant BMW
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Down with sensible motorcycles.

It's just that I wouldn't plan a long trip on a bike I don't know.
Laverda made excellent motorcycles but they need to be looked after by somebody who knows their foibles. After 40 years, you'd be very lucky if that was the case. And these bikes aren't being ridden any more with a few exceptions so you buy an unused bike with all that entails.
Plus the fact that if you intend touring countries with numerous small roads, a Laverda triple is not suited to that.

Paul
 
OK, I've been to see the bike and talk with the seller. I won't be buying it. Too many inconsistencies in the story for my liking, eg: he said he'd rebuilt the engine entirely during lockdown, in his garage. I asked why it was necessary. He said there was a knocking from the engine which turned out to be the centre main bearing. I asked if he'd managed to split the crank in his garage: initially the answer seemed yes but when I said I'd have though a 10 ton press would be needed (plus an engineer's table with very accurate vee blocks, measuring equipment etc, though I didn't mention this), it turned out his Dad, who owns Motalia, did it. I mentioned that with only 36000km on the clock, ie: 26000 miles, it was surprising that the main bearing had failed. It then turned out it hadn't exactly failed but it was making a bit of noise so best to change it. I asked about the crankshaft sludge trap but he said it doesn't have one, just the strainer in the sump. It then turned out it had over 80,000 on the clock, not the 36000km shown on the Ebay photo, for which the explanation was that he must have put the wrong photo on Ebay, accidentally.

I asked about petrol, an was told it should be 98 RON. I said I'd expected that, given that they have 10.5:1 pistons - or is it 10:1 or 11:1? He didn't know, which I found surprising from someone who knew all about the engine. I got the impression that the story was evolving as it went along, which isn't at all reassuring. A pity because it looks good (only the front mudguard has bad paint, the rest is OK other than a little sun fading). It started easily and sounded good with no untoward noises and no smoke. The engine mounts have been changed for new, with stainless holders. No external signs of bodgery but there was petrol pooled between the reinforcing ribs and on the top of the gearbox.

I reckon he'd let it go for maybe 8500, which could be a good buy for an enthusiast with their own properly equipped workshop, plenty of experience with these bikes and the time to do whatever turned out to be necessary. But not for me, I'm disappointed to say.
 
Laverdian said:
Sounds like it was the same bike advertised previously on eBay.
You’ve made the correct decision IMHO.
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Yes, it was on Ebay until the listing expired a couple of days ago. I feel that I did make the right decision. There's another on Ebay - a 3C with a 1200 engine fitted which looks in very nice condition for £6500. I might think about that one.
 
Avoid at all costs . I would say ......... the conversation with the vendor doesn`t exactly inspire confidence ....... over twice the advertised mileage and the wrong photo posted .......... really ... ? .....

BTW ...... Years ago I bought a replacement front wheel spindle from Motalia ......... for a Marzo forked 1200 Mirage ....... arrived through the post ...... would not fit ........ refused to engage more than about half way ....... machined incorrectly ......
Informed Motalia over the phone ..... was told I must have non standard front forks fitted ... !!!! ........ complete and utter drivel ...... returned the useless item and bought some other stuff to the same value ....... and , needless to say , never dealt with them again ( ever ) ...........
 
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You'd be very lucky nowadays to pick up a pay and ride bike, for the reasons I mentioned above.
On that RGS, fuel on the crankcase is either a leaky float bowl or a stuck float, indicating a bike that isn't used much.
Paul
 
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