KTM in trouble

Exmoor beast said:
BMW’s used to share ABS fuse with the cooling fan- if you get a stone in the fan blades the ABS will fail, great idea🤔all too complicated.
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Actually , looking back , just removing the ABS fuse might have got it going again ...... and I would have been tempted to leave it disabled .......

Only trouble is that the ABS would have to be seen as working when it came to MOT time , I think ......
 
Alzero said:
Is it any wonder that it’s not easy to build a reliable and easily serviced motorcycle? BMW clutch replacement:View attachment 94068
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They're not MEANT to be servicable. They're designed to be able to be slapped together in a matter of minutes by cheap, unskilled labour to maximise profits. Servicability is definitey no longer a priority. Product price comes largely from the effort put into designing a quickly and efficiently assembled machine as well as using decent quality materials built to close tolerances so the product will at least survive the warranty period unscathed.

Customer walks into the shop with a duff clutch and recieves an astronomical quote for the repair. Clutches his head in despair, he's just paid off the last installment with the bike out of warranty by a couple of months and says to himself "Oh well, might as well look what's in the showroom". Win-win situation for all, easy quick higher earnings for the dealer, manufacturer has another unit in the sales statistics, owner can brag about his newest whizz-bang. That the prior POS had the potential to financially ruin him is quickly forgotten. Perfectly good resources are thrown in the skip/parted out. What's not to like? :rolleyes:

Imho, repairs are only accepted by dealers these days because consumer protectionists force the manufacturers to make them possible. The shit John Deere is trying to pull off is just the beginning of corporate greed estabilishing a stranglehold on consumers. I refuse to buy a vehicle that I cannot maintain/repair myself or no longer lets me choose whom I entrust with service/repairs.

piet
 
BMW also make parts pricing so high that unless the bike is near new, it can exceed the value of the bike.

I have a K1200RS with 24,000 miles that looks close to new. Always garaged and has never even been ridden in the rain. It had ABS problems from the brake line melting internally and plugging the ABS pump. A replacement pump is $2604 and another $1000 in labor. So $3600 to repair a bike that is only worth $3000 at most. And as it is more than 10 years old the dealer won't even touch the bike.

So unless you can work on the bike yourself, it is scrap. Luckily I can fix my own bikes and was able to repair the ABS pump. Unfortunately the rear main seal failed a year later so I had the fun of removing the gearbox which is a nightmare. You start at the rear light and days later you can see the clutch. Even if the bike was new enough for the dealer to work on it, a clutch replacement also costs more then the bike is worth.

And finally many parts for BMW's more than 10 years old you can't get. As my bike still had the original cooling system hoses, I thought it was time to replace them. Dealer says, no longer available.
 
Alzero said:
Is it any wonder that it’s not easy to build a reliable and easily serviced motorcycle?
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Quite agree , although some bikes , like the BMW pictured , just seem to make themselves damned awkward by design ........ ( great pic by the way ) .........


There are still some bikes available new which you could refer to as easily serviceable ... ( and maybe also reliable ...... ) ..........

The current Royal Enfields would fit into that category for example ....... the 650`s were designed as a compromise , in effect ....... they have to be rugged enough to survive hard use within their all - important home market ( India ) , as well as appealing to Western consumers , where sales are split between those who want a no - nonsense basic motorcycle , and those who would prefer to imagine it`s still 1966 ........

On the other hand , not everyone wants a Royal Enfield ...... If you desire a motorcycle which looks and performs as you would expect of anything produced this century , then the manufacturer of such a device faces many constraints ......

As you say , Mr Alzero , it`s not that easy .......

Mandatory ABS ; ever tightening emission controls for the European market in particular ; stricter and stricter noise regulations ..... ( not just exhaust , but engine and induction noise as well ) ...... Manufacturers have to produce a motorcycle which will conform to all of the above ....... therefore they are forced to fit all the tech that supports all these enforced regulations into each bike they produce , whether we like it or not ........

If it`s going to be allowed to go on sale , it`s the Euro regulations it has to conform to first and foremost ....... and meeting those regulations means the thing moves further and further away from something that can be " owner maintained " ........

This isn`t the fault of the manufacturer ......... If they want permission to sell the motorcycle , they have no choice .....


At the same time , no one really needs power modes ; traction control ( although that`s probably the next thing that will be made mandatory , especially when high performance electric bikes start to become widely available ) ; slide control ; radar regulated cruise control etc. .......... but manufacturers probably think that they have to offer this sort of stuff ....... Some pople will expect stuff like this now , and the manufacturers probably think that all this tech will be demanded before too long as part of the Vision Zero road safety lobby , so they may as well get people used to the idea , by fitting it all now , before they are forced to ......

We will keep quiet about 220 bhp sports bikes which need all this tech in order to stay shiny side up ........ hardly anyone buys them anyway , and most of those go straight onto the track , so perhaps the Euro bureaucrats won`t notice them .......



Triumph also seem to have gained a reputation of deleting parts for older models ... ( as you say , anything over ten years old ) ......... and some Triumph main dealers will apparently refuse to service or work on things like the 955i Daytona , for example ....... If you can`t plug a fault code reader into it ... ( or maybe even if you can ) ..... then tough luck ...... if it`s an " old " bike , then we`re not interested .......

Luckily , there are several independent specialists who will take the work on .... as long as the part they need has`nt been deleted by Triumph ....... and as long as Triumph don`t start copying the trick some manufacturers are employing , by refusing to supply spare parts to anyone who isn`t one of their official dealers ........

If it has been deleted , and if neither you or the specialist can find a decent used example on something like Ebay , then you are , as they say , well and truly stuck ........



BTW ....... I remember a certain Laverda guru ..... ( he of Calere Laverda fame , or is that infamy :unsure: ...... I always found him great to deal with , but best not open old wounds ... ) ...... saying " Modern bikes are not designed to be owner proof , they are designed to be dealer proof ... " ........

.... There is a great deal of truth in that statement , as well .........




Which also reminds me of the official launch of the MZ ETZ 251 here in the UK .........

Now fitted with auto lube , and electronic ignition , the assembled MZ dealers rose to their feet and applauded , when the announcement was made ......
...... " Gentlemen , we now have a totally maintenance free motorcycle " .........

...... there`s the answer then , everyone`s happy .............
 
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I've always been of the view people who design things should then be made to service and repair them before they are sold to the public. However, as said above, if the corporate plan is to make products that are not serviceable then all power to the politicians that are in support of 'right to repair' legislation. However, that would then need support in setting up training and finding the people willing/competent enough to do it and the future workers to be trained....
 
Andy J said:
I've always been of the view people who design things should then be made to service and repair them before they are sold to the public. However, as said above, if the corporate plan is to make products that are not serviceable then all power to the politicians that are in support of 'right to repair' legislation. However, that would then need support in setting up training and finding the people willing/competent enough to do it and the future workers to be trained....
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The London Double decker bus being case in point- infinitely repairable and kept on the roads for donkeys years. I would like to see carbon footprint bollocks for a Routemaster compared with some modern bus that will be scrapped in ten years or less.
Just wait until we end up with loads of dead fizzing EV batteries that aren’t as recyclable as people are led to believe….
 

...... another one for those who secretly like to revel in other people`s ( KTM ) misfortunes ......... ( ie ..... all of us ) ......

Not just electrics , but clutch gone AWOL too , apparently ......

This is two years old ....... Unfortunate chap said he was going to come back with cause of problem(s) , but as far as I can see ...... has`nt ..........

Maybe it`s still at the dealers ........ Someone else posted about a gearbox breakdown after just 157 miles from new ... ( poor metal , whatever that means ) ...... and was still waiting for a replacement gear assembly nine months later .......

Are`nt you grateful you are riding around on a Laverda that can be repaired by the roadside with just a pair of pliers and some gaffa tape ... ? .....
 
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Stay the #### away from these things. I’m sorry for those of you who had great ones,,,,but there’s a pattern going on. I’ve mentioned on this thread me witnessing from 12’ away the complete explosion of a 990, doing ( OMG) 115kms/hr, on the highway, complete physical explosion. There’s just too many stories like this.
 
I loved his optimism that if I try it one more time it’s bound to have cured itself and will start....I also wonder how far he pushed it!
 
Andy J said:
I've always been of the view people who design things should then be made to service and repair them before they are sold to the public. However, as said above, if the corporate plan is to make products that are not serviceable then all power to the politicians that are in support of 'right to repair' legislation. However, that would then need support in setting up training and finding the people willing/competent enough to do it and the future workers to be trained....
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Zane starter motor comes to mind 🤣
 
Just to provide some context regarding KTM`s state of health relative to it`s competitors .........

In 2023 KTM sold 280,000 motorcycles........ In the first half of 2024 , sales were down to 108,536 , which relates to a 23% drop , over a six month basis ....... In the UK , sales were down by 14% , to just 2859 over that same six month period .

Heavy retail price discounting ( up to £3000 plus on some models ) announced in the autumn , was brought into play , to try to stimulate sales , across a 31 bike model range .... ( if you include unsold 2023 bikes as being a different model to unsold 2024 bikes ) ......

KTM production will cease during January and February , and there will be a gradual adjustment of excess stock at both KTM and it`s dealers between now and 2027 .

KTM`s executive board has been reduced from six members to just two ........


Husqvarna , which like KTM is just another brand name within the Pierer Mobility Group , saw sales drop by 17.9% to 26,120 .



Over the same first half of 2024 time frame , Ducati`s operating profit fell by 21.2% , with sales at 32,098 .... an 8.6% drop .

BMW`s half yearly operating profit dropped by 31.2% , despite sales more or less holding steady , with 113,072 bikes being moved onto paying customers ......... 5674 of those being wheeled out of UK dealerships ........

In contrast , Triumph , over the course of the first eight months of 2024 , have recorded sales which are UP by an astounding 37% ..... which should equate to around 125,000 bikes being sold by the end of the year ( now ) , which is double the number sold back in 2020 .

Good news then for Triumph , as long as they don`t increase production off the back of these increased sales to the extent they find themselves with warehouses full of unsold bikes a couple of years down the line ,,,, ( ala KTM ) ......... when sales reduce to zero , due to the looming 2030 ban on new petrol engined bikes ........


As mentioned above , the reason for declining sales , in Europe at least , is most likely down to customer reluctance to invest in something which , in terms of being a new product , now has a life expectancy of only a few years .........

It does make you wonder why a company like Ducati for example , bother to bring out a new V2 engine for their Panigale / Streetfighter mid range models ..... I know Ducati are actually Volkswagen , but why invest all that time and resource into producing a new engine which they will be unable to sell in four years time ?

No wonder they`re losing money ...........


I guess Japanese / Chinese / Indian bike manufacturers are insulated from these sort of concerns to a certain extent , as they churn out billions of small petrol or electric powered scooters and puddle-jumpers , which prop up falling returns in the big bike sector .......


BTW .......... Having said that ........ I see Chinese budget bike maker CF Moto have a 220 bhp V4 engine up and running .... now if they could stick that into a cheap frame / brake / tyre / chassis combination , get it past Euro 5+ regulations , and sell it for under ten grand ..... now that would be a new bike I would be interested in buying ........ up coming 2030 new bike ban or not ...... :) .............
 
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