Laverda spokes

michipons

michipons

Hero member
Location
Palma de Mallorca
Hi all,

I am starting to rebuilt the Borrani R18 wheels for the Laverda 3C. (Never did that before)

I would like to change spokes and nipples, do they need to be from a Laverda supplier or standard aftermarket (stainless) will work? I found several sellers in Europe, that apparently could fit:

https://www.e-spokes.eu/p20,stainless-spokes-sm-3-9mm.html

I measured the spokes and should be around 170mm? but I can order them by 1 mm steps, so maybe i can adjust more, the thing is that with the curve of the spoke I can't exactly measure it... and should be 3'9 as this web sells... or should be 4?

I haven't disassembled the rear wheel yet, but if any of you would know the length for the rear wheel... then I could already place the order for both wheels.

I guess is almost imperative to assembly the new spokes on the rim with a centerer? and approximate nipple torch value.. 3nm?

Regards and thank you for the help as always,
Miguel.

P.s. It came through my head to clean polish and re-zinc-plate both spokes and nipples..... but I think it is may be going a bit too far..?? (I ordered a kit by classic plating for other stuff... so why not?)

IMG_6238.JPG

IMG_6235.JPG

IMG_6233.JPG

F69C0B65-AC45-468E-AEEC-FA655D077FAA.JPG
 
On one occasion I re-spoked a wheel.
Stainless from Wolfgang.
3 of them broke after short use, ended up re-plating the originals.
 
Grant said:
On one occasion I re-spoked a wheel.
Stainless from Wolfgang.
3 of them broke after short use, ended up re-plating the originals.
Click to expand...

Wow!! So I was not so far with my idea...🤣 in my little experience I have become very careful with replicas and after markets... more than three times I had to look in the rubbish for the old spares... sometimes regret that I threw away something.
Nos I keep EVERYTHING.

Miguel
 
I had SS spokes in my 3c wheels when I bought it.
constantly breaking rear wheel spokes.
Since re lacing the rear wheel with original spokes, not one has broken.
The turn on the inside is too tight for SS and they break.
Good luck with the re lace. :)
 
It is surprising that the stainless steel, break easier than old steel ones! Could it be too much tension??
I guess it is hard to find the original ones. What about the nipples?? Maybe is worth to change them? Could I use aftermarket ones? Plating them must be a pain... and some of them are a bit blended

Miguel
 
Its not the tension, its the fact that SS work hardens and becomes brittle, if they were straight spokes they would be fine in SS but as they have to bend over the inside rim its here that they flex.
SS doesnt like flexing.
 
I have SS spokes in my wheels for decades (butted on rear wheel) and never broken any. Have broken plenty of std rear ones. Good quality SS from Central Wheel in UK and Buchannan in US. You can send samples if they havent got the spec. I have built lots of wheels, drill my own rims etc. Cheap material or incorrect bends will not last.
 
Tippie said:
I have SS spokes in my wheels for decades (butted on rear wheel) and never broken any. Have broken plenty of std rear ones. Good quality SS from Central Wheel in UK and Buchannan in US. You can send samples if they havent got the spec. I have built lots of wheels, drill my own rims etc. Cheap material or incorrect bends will not last.
Click to expand...

Which ones are appropriate from central wheels? Because they sell per model not per specification as other suppliers... and I didn?t find Laverda in their website.
Miguel
 
We've all ben through the stainless steel spoke discussion before. I have had stainless spokes in my SF (with basically SFC internals) for 3+ decades and have broken one rear; that was not long after I built the wheel and happened because I'd undertensioned the wheel.

If you buy spokes of unknown origin they WILL break. If you buy known brand high quality stainless spokes from a reputable seller (as per Tippie's recommendations) AND the wheels are built to a high standard (ie with even and adequate spoke tension) you should not have a problem. The J-bend shouldn't be an issue.

I've been through this before, but in the bicycle world I'd replace broken spokes probably 3 or 4 times a week (working in a shop) on wheels with low quality stainless spokes. Bicycle factories source spokes/wheels from anywhere that gives them a low price; once the bike is sold, the spokes will last long enough that they can wash their hands of it if the spokes break, calling it natural wear and tear - owner liability.

When I build wheels with DT Swiss or Sapim spokes, for example,  they simply do NOT break. I have (bicycle) wheels that have covered 30-40,000km, even wearing out 3 rims and still reusing the old spokes. There's simply no comparison between crap stainless and the 'real' thing.
 
Hi!
Can?t be more agree with you. My knowledge background comes from cycling as well, having done some wheels before. Despite many people things, cycling mechanics requires a lot of precission, some things more than bikes! Because every little that is not perfect Affects directly to the heart, literally!🤪


BUT

My big question remains unanswered... where to buy those good quality spokes?? I will still rebuilt mines just in case, but that will go to my-do list, until then I feel better if I have a new set to mount, so the project wont be stopped because I have to learn how to zinc with my new kit...🤦🏼‍♂️🤣

Miguel
 
Contact Buchanans and Central.

All you need are spoke lengths - you can probably decide on gauge/s when ordering (double butted on the rear a good idea). You have your front spokes, so easy measure there. The length is taken from inside the bend to the end of the thread.

Someone on her must have the measurements. Mine were done for 17 inch wheels so not relevant - and the rear is a Kawasaki Z1000 hub.
 
This is a great place to start. https://www.central-wheel.co.uk/information/spokes-and-nipples-stock.html or here http://www.buchananspokes.com/products/individual_stainless_steel_spokes.asp

Loads of single butted (swaged) options). I'd probably go 7/9 or 8/9 on front and rear. If you're concerned, go the larger size on the rear. I don't think you'd need four different sizes for one wheel, but careful measuring is important. I think my front are all identical size. Rear quite likely the same. A few mm short isn't an issue as long as the spoke is threaded as far as possible into the bulb section of the nipple (too short and they break off where the shank meets the bulb).
 
Piranha Brother 2 said:
We've all ben through the stainless steel spoke discussion before. I have had stainless spokes in my SF (with basically SFC internals) for 3+ decades and have broken one rear; that was not long after I built the wheel and happened because I'd undertensioned the wheel.

If you buy spokes of unknown origin they WILL break. If you buy known brand high quality stainless spokes from a reputable seller (as per Tippie's recommendations) AND the wheels are built to a high standard (ie with even and adequate spoke tension) you should not have a problem. The J-bend shouldn't be an issue.

I've been through this before, but in the bicycle world I'd replace broken spokes probably 3 or 4 times a week (working in a shop) on wheels with low quality stainless spokes. Bicycle factories source spokes/wheels from anywhere that gives them a low price; once the bike is sold, the spokes will last long enough that they can wash their hands of it if the spokes break, calling it natural wear and tear - owner liability.

When I build wheels with DT Swiss or Sapim spokes, for example,  they simply do NOT break. I have (bicycle) wheels that have covered 30-40,000km, even wearing out 3 rims and still reusing the old spokes. There's simply no comparison between crap stainless and the 'real' thing.
Click to expand...

I had a rim moved over a couple of weeks ago. Talking to the guy who'd recently taken over a long established spoking business here - I needed to get to know him, lol - he was saying the biggest recent boost to business is the electric bikes.
The shops servicing them are sending him the wheel work. Normal bicycle spokes are proving inadequate on the 'leccy's. He's using a lot of moped gauge spokes now.
 
GregT said:
- he was saying the biggest recent boost to business is the electric bikes.
The shops servicing them are sending him the wheel work. Normal bicycle spokes are proving inadequate on the 'leccy's. He's using a lot of moped gauge spokes now.
Click to expand...

Yep, we used to get plenty of elecs at the bicycle shop. They also suffer from poor quality - the really cheap buys will maybe givce you a month or two before they spit out broken spokes..

You'd be amazed how strong and durable a top quality spoke can be. There's a triple butted DT Swiss model called the Alpine III. They're pretty fat at the ends and quite thin in the middle - we used to build wheels for heavy duty touring, so heavy loads, shit roads, big km. I used these spokes to build two huge electric wheels for a farmer who wanted a grunty farm bike, two wheel drive. We chose those over a heavy straight gauge of unknown origin - never came back with broken ones, so I've assumed they worked. Basically all the crap spokes are coming from China and the quality is just not there. With time, maybe they'll improve. We're still well inside the 'build-it-as-cheap-as-poss' phase with China.

Quick test (mentioned before on here by me): put a spoke in a vice bend back and forth and count the number of times until it breaks. Good spoke, plain gauge - maybe 20; exact size in a shaez offering - maybe 4 or 5.

Sorry for harping on - I've done a stack of wheelbuilding over the years, moto and bicycle.
 
Miguel

The back wheel in my 3CL conversion has Kleeblatt stainless spokes, still holding up after 10+ years.
Spokes were sourced from WWS in Germany
https://www.wws-speichen.de/en/

HTH
Gerald
 
thank you all for your inputs, I have now plenty of sources to keep my investigation.

In Laverda Paradies, they present the spoke set with inner and outer spokes. I have been swapping the photos at speed of light to try to see the differences, but I can't see them. My front spokes, all look the same, I can't see any difference at all. Should I order just 36 with the same spec? or are they really different?

The length is taken from inside the bend to the end of the thread.
Click to expand...

Good that you say it, because I was meassuring from the end of the thread to the middle of the "mushroom", so I meassured 170mm for the front spokes, as you say, its indeed a couple of mm less...

Miguel
 
After my spoke toque wrench turned up I did search on the net for figures. You would do the same, don't rely on just some random bloke like me. What I found was heavy bikes should be around 4.5. That's new clean spokes
 
I have used these guys a few times when building trials wheels www.newsonsportec.com . Use the same gauge as standard, a thicker spoke won't fit through the hub.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top