Laverda spokes

BobSol said:
it's important at this stage to establish which direction the rim should sit.
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Not sure what you mean by this. I've never checked for rotational direction when assembling spoked wheels.  As far as I'm aware, wheel rims don't care which way they rotate.
 
It may be possible to reverse the lead-trail direction of the spokes, Cam. I don't have direct experience but this is the case with bicycle wheels.

What Rusty is I think alluding to is to avoid the spokes going into the hub with the angle reversed (you can see the marks where they were fitted previously, or perhaps inners fitted where outers were fitted. The hub wears in a pattern where spokes have pulled and contacted, and this needs to be duplicated when respoking. Might be impossible to lace arse about with a reverse rim on a moto - dunno. Couldn't be bothered looking to confirm. But I understand the premise.
 
Where possible I spoke so that the main directional forces are pulling from the inside, straightest pulling spokes. The side forces with the outer spokes, seems to make sense but maybe no difference. The original front wheel on my SF2 was laced very strange, with the inner spokes put into holes on the opposite side of the rim, something I have never seen on another wheel, and the rim was centred about 8mm off towards the right hand side so it was a proper bodge. I am as good as certain that Laverda front rims are central on the hub, very easy to check. Someone here can surely give Miguel the measurement for the rear if he needs it. I have also never heard of balancing a wheel without the tyre, as someone mentioned. And if rim rotation direction was important (which I have also never heard of) there would be arrows for front and back wheel direction stamped on the rim as it is on some cast alloy wheels (like the front of my CBR600). The biggest challenge is always getting runout good either side of the weld.
Miguel has taken lots of pics and is approaching it with a lot of thought, he will be fine.
 
If you were lacing to a conical hub rim direction would matter. I built up a CZ rear wheel to a DID rim using the directional arrow that was stamped on the rim as a guide. Once trued you could see the spokes had slight bends and the nipples weren't sitting proper in the holes. Disassembled completely, flipped the rim and all was good. Directional arrow was stamped in the wrong direction.
 
If there is one thing I know about Miguel.... he will succeed at anything he starts... he is very methodical and determined, I cant wait to see his finished wheel
 
Hi Miguel
              The one thing I forgot to mention is to measure the wheel runout on the tyre bead diameter on the inside of the rim. Obviously it's the tyre that needs to run true, everything else is in the wind. Literally. The reason to ensure the rim runs in the right direction is that not all builds are symmetrical, using different length spokes inside to outside and side to side. Get it wrong and the nipples won't seat properly on the rim and the spokes will bend under tension. Some wheels have four different spoke lengths per set. I've never built a Laverda wheel so these are general guidelines to avoid frustrating pitfalls.

Kind Regards    Bob
 
sideshow said:
If there is one thing I know about Miguel.... he will succeed at anything he starts... he is very methodical and determined, I cant wait to see his finished wheel
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Thank you Todd!! And if not I can always call you and have a beer looking to the wheel trying to understand what she wants to tell us🤣🤣
Miguel
 
If you want black art, you should immerse yourself in bicycle wheels - with the advent of low spoke count wheels, the number of variations in lacing pattern is incredible.

Easy peasy to centre a rim - assemble your hub with everything in place (axle spacers, cush drive, brake plate if it is a drum) and determine the width. Halve it and you have your centre. Measure your rim's width, halve it. If you lace so that the distance from the chain adjuster interface to the rim edge is half-hub-width minus half-rim-width you know you've dished it correctly.

You can use narrower spacers to fit it  into the truing stand, as long as you are reducing it by the same amount each side. Playing around with chainline? Well that's a different matter again - you won't have to worry about that - but out of interest, it's measured from the centre of the bike (so mid point of the swingarm spindle tube on a Lav) to the mid point of the gearbox sprocket (not the axial centre!). 
 
Swing arms are not necessarily symmetrical about the bike's central plane. I've seen a bike with an offset swing arm. I forget what type of bike it was, but the swing arm flared out further on the chain drive side than on the disk brake side to accommodate the rather chunky cush drive that stayed put when the wheel was removed. Measuring half way on that bike to find the rim centreline would have ended up off centre.

I'm pretty sure my 3CL has a symmetrical swing arm as far as the wheel centering is concerned.
Not sure about the drum brake models like the 3C and 750 twins. I'm aware that the wheel can be removed without disturbing the sprocket and cush drive assembly, but dunno if the swinger is offset to make room for that.
 
It's not, or at least not on my bike and its now dead straight. I had it measure on a Computrack Machine and it's aligned well. My issue, in the end, years ago was missing the second left side rear spacer. Seemed a bit odd having 2 but yep they do. The tube one and the thick washer one. I was missing the thick washer, it was on the outside of the swingarm. It nice to have a neutral steering bike that tracks straight with your hands off the bars.
 
Dellortoman said:
Swing arms are not necessarily symmetrical about the bike's central plane.
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Was referring specifically to Lavs, Cam. And willing to bet a side's worth of Paul's 60,000km old points on it ... I've got some lying around somewhere in my redundant parts bin  8)
 
Dellortoman said:
Not sure what you mean by this. I've never checked for rotational direction when assembling spoked wheels.  As far as I'm aware, wheel rims don't care which way they rotate.
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Normally-spoked wire wheels at least.  Lots of cast rims are directional.  Weight saving has been taken to extremes on these, making reversal quite dangerous.

A thing to consider when replacing Laverda rims with modern alloy equivalents, is the dimples in modern rims are usually not deep enough to accomodate the spoke angles used on the rear drum brake wheels.  Front drum and disc are no problem, the spoke pattern used is quite common, rears are very different.  Often, there is no option other than to revert to a "normal" spoke pattern, which also involves having custom spokes being made (same length as drum brake fronts, only thicker).  Theoretically, the wheel cannot be as strong as an original, in practice, I haven't come across any issues.

piet
 
sfcpiet said:
Theoretically, the wheel cannot be as strong as an original, in practice, I haven't come across any issues.
piet
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Me neither as it goes the 3C was laced that way when I got it, and now its done like 20,000 miles on rough Aussie roads and is still hanging in there
Now the drummer on the other hand has broken a few along the way... and its always a dam inner spoke normally so not an easy change out... ...  its still laced the factory 5 7 method.. so was the Laverda way the best way after all hmm one has to wonder ?
 
The problem with that lace pattern is it takes 2 bends where it meets the hub. In my case with my 3.0 Acron borani lookalike with its small dimple, it's not an easy wheel in the least to build and not have ongoing issues. Mine has stabilised, I would like to do a round to check spoke tension but I am scared to touch it, sleeping dogs.
 
maurice turner said:
Well Brett my boy that lace pattern on your rear wheel is making me think about changing my red 3C to the same after finding another broken rear inner spoke!!!!!!!!!!
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You'll need to replace the rim as well, Maurice.

If the spokes are still the originals, replace them all with new ones and reliability should increase.  Time takes its toll on the spokes. If you're experiencing multiple breakages under normal road use, it's most probably simple fatigue.  You never know what these wheels have been through in their previous life/lives.

piet
 
My brother Tim used to break rear spokes regularly on his 3C (don't think there was ever a problem with the front wheel). They'd always break at the bend where they hooked through the hub flange. He eventually got it re-laced with thicker spokes that had a closer fitting bend at the hub flange to eliminate any flex at that point. Hasn't broken a spoke since that was done, and he reckons it also eliminated a high-speed weave in the steering that the bike has had since it was new. I don't know whether the perceived handling improvement is a reality or just wishful thinking. Or perhaps it's down to improvements in tyre technology. But he's convinced its the more solid spokes that's made the difference. Who am I to argue?

He had the re-spoking done by Lightfoot Wheels in Melbourne https://www.lightfootwheels.com/ and was very pleased with the result.
 
From my experience never use stainless steel for spokes as they stretch. Use steel spokes. Yes steel rusts, but sand and clean them about every 3 years, epoxy primer and paint with Aluminum paint to look right using a brush - Pain sticking work and then spray with Rust Check - You might just get away with over 5 years.

Stainless Steel spokes will kill you.
 
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