Laverdas bomb at Bonham's Stafford auction

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sfcpiet said:
But for each Euro they give you as an employee you earn, they make 100, Lothar.

They didn't become that rich without reason. Capitalism has been exploiting the "lower" classes for centuries, if they paid as much tax as we do, society on a whole would be far better off. Conservative governments world-wide have done their very best to ensure the wealthiest needn't contribute their fair share to the well-being of their country. And still, they evade as much tax as possible, they've mostly become greedy cunts, or their accountants and managers are. I'd tip my hat to all those you named if they had remained resident in Germany.

In the beginning of industrialisation, many risks and challenges needed to be faced and overcome. All the best to those that succeeded. But Klatten and Quandt for example, fell into a bed of roses... they weren't born with a silver spoon in their mouth, they had a complete cutlery set in gold with diamonds. They simply inherited their millions, and haven't needed to work hard a single day to multiply them.

No living person "needs" 200+ billion dollars. Bezos sucks bucks from each and every employee while striving to keep unions out of his warehouses. One day of striking would cost him more than if he'd pay his people an approriate wage to start with. But his forte is exploiting those that have no other choice. I sort of like the fact that his ex-wife has donated very large portions of her divorce settlement to various charities and remains the 4th richest woman in the US.

The list is a long one...

BTW Lothar, my income is so small, I pay next to no taxes at all. I just manage to scrape along by the skin of my teeth and I am by no means moaning. I'm very well aware there are a lot more far worse off than I. It's the higher middle class here that carries society, the top 5% do next to nothing (except for pissing off to Switzerland, Monaco, etc.).

No further comments...

piet
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I am not sure about Bezos, have no insight there. Google just says that he announced to spend roughly half of his almost 130 Billion USD for social projects...

I appreciate though the innitiatives of people like Bill Gates, who spent half (!!) of their money to cherity. Also the likes of Quandt and others spend millions every year to finance airfilters for schools, for desease research etc. etc., they build their own Foundations to help further develop cures etc. Do they spend the majority of their money? for sure not. But to say they just enjoy their lives is and keep their money is also not true. just research yourself, you will find some info. Many of them though try to stay out of the press as else they get bombarded with begging letters...

It's really weird in Germany: if you are successful by taking the risk and working hard, people think you don't deserve it and you are just lucky, born into it or what ever. If you get Hartz IV (now "Bürgergeld") and are at the lower end of society, still people think you don't deserve even that money. When do I deserve what I have?

All of us here btw. are obviously very rich, as we can afford bikes like Laverdas. THEY cost me a real fortune in my life...
 
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I'm pleased to live in a country where most can access health, whatever their income because we all pay for the health service according to income, where most can access a state pension though the minimum is insufficient, if that's being a socialist, please send me my card. I'm pleased to live in a country where the dreaded state tries to help everybody out to some extent and where welfare isn't left to religious nutters whatever their confession, I'm pleased to live in a country where it's not just everyone for himself, where it's understood that your birth and fate are more important to what you are than any sort of quality you might have. I'm pleased to live in a place where everybody merits consideration, if that makes me full of christian feelings of brotherhood, I can swim, where can I get baptised?

And all of this is very insufficient and what there is, is constantly endangered by people who haven't climbed down the tree yet, who'll happily give you lessons on how life is a jungle but all along, they're the predators, in turn preyed upon by bigger than themselves.

Paul
 
Bloody hell, nice post Paul. Another Socialist, I just don't understand this taring of THAT word like it's the exact same as communism. BTW that C word could have been a reasonable system except it doesn't work in practice linked to human nature. The book Animal Farm says it far better than me.
 
Paul Marx said:
I'm pleased to live in a country where most can access health, whatever their income because we all pay for the health service according to income, where most can access a state pension though the minimum is insufficient, if that's being a socialist, please send me my card. I'm pleased to live in a country where the dreaded state tries to help everybody out to some extent and where welfare isn't left to religious nutters whatever their confession, I'm pleased to live in a country where it's not just everyone for himself, where it's understood that your birth and fate are more important to what you are than any sort of quality you might have. I'm pleased to live in a place where everybody merits consideration, if that makes me full of christian feelings of brotherhood, I can swim, where can I get baptised?

And all of this is very insufficient and what there is, is constantly endangered by people who haven't climbed down the tree yet, who'll happily give you lessons on how life is a jungle but all along, they're the predators, in turn preyed upon by bigger than themselves.

Paul
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It appears that Canada is worse than the country you live in, as far as health care anyways. Universal shared misery as a former fine leader inferrred decades ago. It is actually illegal to, with your own money, exit out of the multi year waiting lists for basic procedures, and go to private clinics to gain access to medical help in Canada. One must exit the country to avoid this roadblock. Not even in North Korea is there such ethical socialist undertakings.
 
Years ago, Scott Potter and his then wife visited us. Scott had a very bad cold and obviously needed medication. I told him that one of my neighbours is a doctor specialized on the breathing and hearing systems (we call them HNO, which stands for the german words of throat, nose, ears). I called into them for an appointment, got on the waiting list for the same day, drove over to them, got him in front of the doctor within 30 minutes after the call. The doctor examined him, diagnosed him with a heavy infection (Bronchitis) and prescribed him antibiotics. We got the bill, went downstairs to the pharmacy and got him his medication. He ended up with a bill of 45 € for the examination and 25 € for the medication.

Scott looked at me and asked when they would send the big bill. I asked what he means and he said that this can't be everything he has to pay. I confirmed it is and he looked at me very, very surprised. He told me later on that the same examination and medication in US would have probably cost him around 1.000 USD... (after a bike crash, he had to pay the doctor 1200 USD just for an examination - no x-ray or similar involved!)

Not so bad over here then, I thought...
 
My perceptions of wealth and privilege changed when I cycled through Sudan and Ethiopia for two weeks. The greed still exists in our system, but I'd rather become seriously ill here than there - have never forgotten seeing four men carrying a stretcher on their shoulders in the middle of absolute BFN with an obviously very ill person on board - heading for wherever the nearest medical help might have been ... a loooong way away.
 
Vince said:
Bloody hell, nice post Paul. Another Socialist, I just don't understand this taring of THAT word like it's the exact same as communism. BTW that C word could have been a reasonable system except it doesn't work in practice linked to human nature. The book Animal Farm says it far better than me.
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Wrong book Vince, try 1984?😉
 
They're both relevant, Animal Farm shows how individuals corrupt a system for their own ends, any system. We are all equals, it's just some are more equal than others. Just like Uncle Joe did in the USSR.
 
Legs said:
Prefer to be branded a socialist than a capitalist.
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Vince said:
Bloody hell, nice post Paul. Another Socialist, I just don't understand this taring of THAT word like it's the exact same as communism. BTW that C word could have been a reasonable system except it doesn't work in practice linked to human nature. The book Animal Farm says it far better than me.
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sorry, but I either don't understand you properly (which I then appologize for) or you (and obviously some others) are having a massive missunderstanding here, Vince...

Socialism is not the exact sames as communism. Socialism can be the interims-solution between capitalism and communism by definition of Mr. Marx himself, but Capitalism (even if with social insurances) is also the absolut opposit of the two!!

To clarify: in socialism, everything is owned by the people and equaly (!!) distributed by a democraticly (well, kind of in reality...) elected government. In communism, everything belongs to the state and the state controles who is getting what. Please read the following to better understand what is what:

byjus.com

Difference between Communism, Capitalism and Socialism With their Comparisons

Differences between Capitalism, Socialism and Communism are detailed in a tabular format. Capitalism vs Communism vs Socialism. Find the distinction between the three in detail. Download PDF Notes Free, To Crack IAS 2024, follow BYJU’S
byjus.com byjus.com

Further to that, a social state democracy has nothing, I repeat NOTHING to do with socialism. It is neither everything belongs to everyone nor everything belongs to the state. It allows everyone (at least in theory...) to have equal rights and equal chances to improve personal wellfair and welth but also makes successful and healthy people financially participating on the costs of the whole society and especially compensates the poor and suffering for not being successful and healthy. As a wise man is said to have expressed roughly 2000 years ago: "Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's". Cause "Caesar" builds highways, illuminates the roads at night, pays for security staff, runs schools etc. etc. Just like in the great scene of Monty Pythons "Life of Bryan":




Was Jesus a socialist or communist? I doubt.

Adding to that, a fee for social security (unemployment, healthcare, pension) is not making a social, democratic state a socialistic regime, please, this is poor right-wing nonsense...
 
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