More printed matter ( again )

Never got that close to a 500 to realise ......... If I`d known at the time I could have asked Alan Bell at Miura if he had any spare ones ......... Or maybe asked Andy Wagner if he had any NOS available .......... :unsure: :) ..................

Forget brake / carb / ignition upgrades ........... What I want is a 8000 rpm tacho ............

Although thinking again ( I do sometimes but it doesn`t always help ) .......... would there have been any difference between the 500 and 1000/1200 tacho internal gearing ? ..........Maybe not ............ And are they the same size physically ?
 
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While the older ND clocks of the 750s and triples had an off-set drive cable exit, the 500s have a central exit. This was later carried over to the triples as well, 750s were discontinued by then.

All ND tachs had a 3:1 drive ratio irrespective of which bike they were originally fitted. Same is true of ND speedos (5:1 iIrc). Dial faces and needles underwent gradual changes, silver ring on needle hub was the first to disappear, then the logo. Possibly cost-cutting or ND no longer willing to cater for low volume specials.

piet
 
I think CB Faces (the Butter guy you mention?) gave the option of the 8k redline on his refurbed faces. I fitted a Honda K1 tacho that had an 8k redline, but of course the gearing was different, and the 750 would spin it to over 10k. I didn't have a speedo (TZ front hub) but the tacho gearing was easy to use as a speedo - revs in 4th = mph, revs in 5th = 2 x kph (so 5k was 100kph, 8k was 160kph).

I could never quite understand the 6500-7500 redline, but heard that it meant 'sustained use' in this zone should be avoided! FFS why not just use the redline how 99.99% of manufacturers did!
 
I always assumed ( rightly or wrongly ) in the past that as a small volume manufacturer it was easier for Laverda to pick whatever was most suitable from the ND catalogue , rather than go to the expense of having ND create something special for them .............. even if ND had been willing to do so ....... and this would have been for the 750 twins to start with .........

But as Piet mentions , the Laverda logo suggests ND were willing to make some small changes for Laverda for a while at least .

Thinking again about the 6500 - 7500 red zone ......... According to the info I have , Laverda claimed the 750 twins would produce their maximum power at around 6600 to 7000 rpm , depending on the model ......... which kind of fits in quite nicely with the 6500 - 7500 red zone on the ND clocks .

Even iIf you allow for a little extra , say 500 rpm or so , then that gives somewhere between 7000 - 7500 rpm ..... which again still fits in quite nicely with the 7500 upper red zone limit on the ND clocks .........

( The paper Motor Cycle quoted a ( claimed ) 65 bhp at 7000 rpm from the SF they tested , but took it to 7500 rpm during the speed runs . )

However , the triples tended to deliver their maximum power a little higher ..... 7600 rpm , although the factory seemed to have given up on quoting actual outputs by then ....... So if you allow for that extra 500 or so rpm ... ( or even more if you`ve got a GS1000 up your chuff ) ..... then that gives 8000 plus rpm , which starts to make that 6500 - 7500 red zone look a little old fashioned ........

If you`re still awake , this is just my long winded way of saying that the 750 tacho suited the twins just fine , but didn`t really suit the triples so well .........

But if you were Laverda , you may just as well just start fitting those same 750 tachos you`ve got lying around in boxes to the new triples anyway ..... Why go the trouble and expense of ordering something different .......... it`s all near enough really ...........

That`s what I reckon , anyway ............
 
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But redline is redline - if someone sees the needle hit 6500 then they assume (based on virtually every other engine connected to a tacho out there) that they've hit max safe revs. And why does it stop at 7500??? My Skoda (diesel) has red stripes at 4500 and full red at 5000 and beyond.
 
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Back in the early `seventies , sixty year old Cadwell Park owner Charles Wilkinson took Barry Sheene for a pillion ride around the circuit on the back of Wilkinson`s BMW R75/5 ........

Getting off the bike , Sheene said " It was absolutely terrifying ........ valve bounce in every gear .... " .......

Not sure if the 75/5 was fitted with a rev counter , but if it was , Wilkinson was treating it as strictly advisory ..........
 
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Paul Marx said:
Put a white face Veglia on it, and some red tape where you'd like the redline.
Paul
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You'll find it difficult to find one suited to Laverdas, they won't work properly with stock drive ratio. Redline is no more than a guess. 500 Formula needed a gearing change for the Veglia.

piet
 
Paul Marx said:
I have one on my TT2.
Paul
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If it reads correctly, it will have the special drive gears at the camshaft.

To my knowledge, Veglia never made a Competizione to suit Laverdas' 3:1 ratio, Laverda manufactured the gears to suit the tach which has a very common 4:1 ratio iIrc. As it was only ever fitted to the 500 Formula ex-factory, these bikes recieved the special gears ex-factory.

I went to great lengths adapting a Competizione to my 3C, spent quite a while spinning the tach on the lathe at designated speeds and adjusting the length of the clock spring to get a correct reading at around 6000rpm. Near-enough for everyday use.

piet
 
sfcpiet said:
If it reads correctly, it will have the special drive gears at the camshaft.

To my knowledge, Veglia never made a Competizione to suit Laverdas' 3:1 ratio, Laverda manufactured the gears to suit the tach which has a very common 4:1 ratio iIrc. As it was only ever fitted to the 500 Formula ex-factory, these bikes recieved the special gears ex-factory.

I went to great lengths adapting a Competizione to my 3C, spent quite a while spinning the tach on the lathe at designated speeds and adjusting the length of the clock spring to get a correct reading at around 6000rpm. Near-enough for everyday use.

piet
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My TT2 is ex factory.
Paul
 
sfcpiet said:
If it reads correctly, it will have the special drive gears at the camshaft.

To my knowledge, Veglia never made a Competizione to suit Laverdas' 3:1 ratio, Laverda manufactured the gears to suit the tach which has a very common 4:1 ratio iIrc. As it was only ever fitted to the 500 Formula ex-factory, these bikes recieved the special gears ex-factory.

I went to great lengths adapting a Competizione to my 3C, spent quite a while spinning the tach on the lathe at designated speeds and adjusting the length of the clock spring to get a correct reading at around 6000rpm. Near-enough for everyday use.

piet
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And very handy for noise testing if you had the ‘wrong’ gearing fitted and the tachometer was reading above the actual revs….
 
Sir Alan Cathcart was mentioned here recently regarding his new Laverda book .......... There`s an interview with him in the latest edition of Classic Bike ........ Only a passing mention of Laverdas though ... ( and hardly even that ) .... regarding the triple fitted to the Saxon Racing bike before they changed to Triumph ........


There`s also a photo feature on Barry Sheene and the 50 anniversary of his 500 title ........

There was an interview with Martyn Ogbourne not so long ago ......... being Sheene`s race technician at the time , his insights provided quite an interesting contrast to the public persona / sponsor friendly package and presentation that Sheene had so carefully worked on ..........

Manipulation and out - maneuvering the opposition was the way to go ....... ( no great surprise there really , I guess ) ........

Ogbourne recalled that when John Newbold started getting good results on a private Yamaha , Sheene said ... " If that kid Newbold gets a works ride , we`re f*cked ........ "
The Sheene solution ? .......
He helped to get Newbold a works Suzuki contract as his team mate ....... a nice gesture .... or not ........ What it meant was that as No 1 rider Sheene would get the latest machinery and factory uodates , whilst John would have to make do with the second string machinery ........

Newbold problem solved ..........

When Newbold crashed his bike during practice for a race , he asked the team if he could use Sheene`s spare bike for the race ....... Sheene said No .......


John Williams was another team mate of Sheene`s ......... He became increasing pissed - off with Sheene`s one upmanship tactics , which eventually spilled over into open warfare between the two of them in the motorcycle press ........ Williams making allegations , and Sheene countering with his own .........

" Say what you like Williams , you`re still wrong .... " was how one of Sheene`s printed replies started off ........

Sheene did help to save Williams life during his time with Suzuki though ......... John had crashed during practice for a Grand Prix , and was lying unconscious by the trackside ...... Sheene stopped and kept his airway open till the medics arrived .......... but the two of them never got on ............

Williams was offered a contract again with Suzuki for the following tear ( 1977 ) , but he turned it down , preferring to return to racing as a privateer .........

Things really must have been that bad ...........
 
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rocketonarail said:
Sir Alan Cathcart was mentioned here recently regarding his new Laverda book .......... There`s an interview with him in the latest edition of Classic Bike ........ Only a passing mention of Laverdas though ... ( and hardly even that ) .... regarding the triple fitted to the Saxon Racing bike before they changed to Triumph ........


There`s also a photo feature on Barry Sheene and the 50 anniversary of his 500 title ........

There was an interview with Martyn Ogbourne not so long ago ......... being Sheene`s race technician at the time , his insights provided quite an interesting contrast to the public persona / sponsor friendly package and presentation that Sheene had so carefully worked on ..........

Manipulation and out - maneuvering the opposition was the way to go ....... ( no great surprise there really , I guess ) ........

Ogbourne recalled that when John Newbold started getting good results on a private Yamaha , Sheene said ... " If that kid Newbold gets a works ride , we`re f*cked ........ "
The Sheene solution ? .......
He helped to get Newbold a works Suzuki contract as his team mate ....... a nice gesture .... or not ........ What it meant was that as No 1 rider Sheene would get the latest machinery and factory uodates , whilst John would have to make do with the second string machinery ........

Newbold problem solved ..........

When Newbold crashed his bike during practice for a race , he asked the team if he could use Sheene`s spare bike for the race ....... Sheene said No .......


John Williams was another team mate of Sheene`s ......... He became increasing pissed - off with Sheene`s one upmanship tactics , which eventually spilled over into open warfare between the two of them in the motorcycle press ........ Williams making allegations , and Sheene countering with his own .........

" Say what you like Williams , you`re still wrong .... " was how one of Sheene`s printed replies started off ........

Sheene did help to save Williams life during his time with Suzuki though ......... John had crashed during practice for a Grand Prix , and was lying unconscious by the trackside ...... Sheene stopped and kept his airway open till the medics arrived .......... but the two of them never got on ............

Williams was offered a contract again with Suzuki for the following tear ( 1977 ) , but he turned it down , preferring to return to racing as a privateer .........

Things really must have been that bad ...........
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I think Steve Parrish said he always got on with Sheene because he never a threat, had he been faster things may have been different.
Champions are champs for a reason, they have to win. Fogarty & Hislop both go out in practice for the TT on works Hondas that cost £250,000 each. Hislop was a tenth of a second faster, Forgarty says” Typical, I get the one with the shit engine!”
 
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