Moto Guzzi V100 Mandello....Modern RGS??

Vince said:
So many manufacturers seem to use the first generation of buyers as Beta testers. I suppose it makes economic sense to them. Not so much for the owners though.
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But that's the price many are willing to pay, just to be the first kid on the block! New bike is shown at an exhibition, punters wet their undies and slap down a deposit... crazy stupid.

New bikes may be designed by engineers, but without the accountants' OK, nothing goes. They've got big, fat, red pencils. If 5 cents can be saved somewhere during production, it will be done. Doesn't matter at first if it bites them, first year sales seem to be all important to them.

piet
 
I forget the term but it involves saving 5 cents at one point on the assembly line but in the end that 5c becomes a huge figure later in the production process. That concept was a big thing in the 1980s, wish I could remember the term they used for that, Google didn't help.
 
sfcpiet said:
But that's the price many are willing to pay, just to be the first kid on the block! New bike is shown at an exhibition, punters wet their undies and slap down a deposit... crazy stupid.

New bikes may be designed by engineers, but without the accountants' OK, nothing goes. They've got big, fat, red pencils. If 5 cents can be saved somewhere during production, it will be done. Doesn't matter at first if it bites them, first year sales seem to be all important to them.

piet
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I’ve owned a lot of motorcycles, and most brands. Only with Moto Guzzi, perhaps Ducati, did I feel as if I was the brand’s own personal free R&D department.
 
A mate owned an early model BMW K1200s and they had multiple recalls and upgrades over the years sorting out flaws. They are a pretty high-tech bike.
 
I have changed hundreds of Kawasaki carbs , Loads of BMW gear boxes, loads of Honda cams, loads of Triumph everything - all warranty pain in the arse stuff that affects thousands of bikes. Trouble can happen when outsourced components change quality without telling manafacturer . Kawasaki for example had piston failure on KR1 2 stroke, the ring retaining pin would work inwards allowing the rings to revolve- kaboom. New improved piston was bought out but Kawasaki sold existing stock of faulty pistons first before breaking out the new batch- kaboom, kaboom, kaboom.
 
I've test ridden the V100 (with standard suspension) I can report that it's agile, balanced, punchy and characterful. Quite vibey on the grips and a bit tight on legroom for my tall frame and legs, but looks and feels well built. I will wait for the slightly taller Stelvio to arrive and give it real consideration.
 
Vince said:
I forget the term but it involves saving 5 cents at one point on the assembly line but in the end that 5c becomes a huge figure later in the production process. That concept was a big thing in the 1980s, wish I could remember the term they used for that, Google didn't help.
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The Toyota Principal Vince.

It also uses cell assembling techniques.

One particular cell is responsible for a complete assembly area. One of many cells overall, but if there is an issue they can pinpoint the cell and address the issue.

The Guzzi water pump cell would be grilled in this case.
 
Steve G. said:
I’ve owned a lot of motorcycles, and most brands. Only with Moto Guzzi, perhaps Ducati, did I feel as if I was the brand’s own personal free R&D department.
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Reading this , I reckon you could add Triumph to that list , although more quality control , rather than R&D .......

The catalogue of shame is as follows :

T25SS ( Engine actually by BSA ) ....... Zener Diode failure ; stuck in top gear twice ... Within 8000 miles ...... ( Brand new bike )

T140V ( Engine by Meriden Co-op ) ..... Big end bearing failure at 10,000 miles ...... ( Brand new bike )

T160V ( Engine actually by BSA ) ....... Clutch hub driven gear disintegrates at 9,000 miles ...... ( Brand new bike )

Bonneville 1200 Bobber ( Carlos over in Thailand ) ..... ABS hydraulic pump / electrical thing ....... Failure at 3800 miles ..... ( Brand new bike ) .......

Imagine the workshop time / riding ratio on that little lot .......

( Still wouldn`t mind a TR5T Trophy Trail though ...... ) .......
 
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That's exactly it, but there was a 2 word term used as its specific name. It's a great way for Engineers to reclaim there rightfully place over bean counters. So a Bean Counter would find a way to save 5 cents but that saving would cause another or multiple issues further down the track that would eventually prove catastrophic, just like changing valve springs or crank bearing on a proven design that saves a buck but destroys the Company Reputation for rock-solid reliability. Close but not the term I was after.
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rocketonarail said:
Reading this , I reckon you could add Triumph to that list , although more quality control , rather than R&D .......

The catalogue of shame is as follows :

T25SS ( Engine actually by BSA ) ....... Zener Diode failure ; stuck in top gear twice ... Within 8000 miles ...... ( Brand new bike )

T140V ( Engine by Meriden Co-op ) ..... Big end bearing failure at 10,000 miles ...... ( Brand new bike )

T160V ( Engine actually by BSA ) ....... Clutch hub driven gear disintegrates at 9,000 miles ...... ( Brand new bike )

Bonneville 1200 Bobber ( Carlos over in Thailand ) ..... ABS hydraulic pump / electrical thing ....... Failure at 3800 miles ..... ( Brand new bike ) .......

Imagine the workshop time / riding ratio on that little lot .......

( Still wouldn`t mind a TR5T Trophy Trail though ...... ) .......
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Your Britbike failings were nothing to do with R&D because they didn’t have any- just two old tossers that thought they knew it all ignoring the advice of everyone else. My mate was manager of Motorcycle city near Guildford back in the day when they sold Meriden Triumph. He reckoned they would come back with 6k on the clock needing a rebore- and Christ knows what else. Modern bikes suffer from lack of rolling development, they change every component seemingly for the sake of it. We changed thousands of T595 neutral switches but the brass plunger was so hard it wore the selector drum face- an item costing a pound buggering up the gearbox and requiring a full engine rebuild.
The UK was one of the only terrortories to succumb to carb icing that caused Kawasaki to have so many headaches - combination of cold / humid weather and fuel recipe that were perculiar to UK When we used to use bikes for daily transport- I doubt anyone would notice the problem these days as they don’t go to work in freezing conditions!
Your BSA B25 also had UNF threads- who thought fine threads in alloy was a good idea?? Design dept t BSA was jokingly referred to as Mecca- Mecca a right balls up of everything.
 
How many books were written about the demise of the British Bike industry? Probably made more money from the books than from selling bikes back then. My favourite was everybody said they refused to modernise, then they employed a bunch of highly qualified modernisers who made everything even worse, Slumberdale story about the 72 nightmare.
 
Vince said:
How many books were written about the demise of the British Bike industry? Probably made more money from the books than from selling bikes back then. My favourite was everybody said they refused to modernise, then they employed a bunch of highly qualified modernisers who made everything even worse, Slumberdale story about the 72 nightmare.
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I met a guy who worked at Nortons in Wolverhampton who was a crank grinder. I asked him loads of questions and he just said “Dunno, it was just a job weren’t it!”
 
my 2018 Kawasaki H2 SX SE Supercharged (since sold). Single sided swing arm. Recalled for failure to lubricate the rear wheel bearing at the factory.......

when I took it apart myself, the dry wheel bearing was scorched blue, that would have been a spectacular failure at speed
 
Paul LeClair said:
my 2018 Kawasaki H2 SX SE Supercharged (since sold). Single sided swing arm. Recalled for failure to lubricate the rear wheel bearing at the factory.......

when I took it apart myself, the dry wheel bearing was scorched blue, that would have been a spectacular failure at speed
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The clutch hub failure with the T160V was also caused by lack of grease during assembly at the factory ( according to the Trident and Rocket Three Owners Club ) ...... The single driven plate of the Borg and Beck clutch engaged by means of a splined boss with a splined hub attached to the mainshaft ......... It was the splined boss at the centre of the driven plate which broke up .... the clutch hub itself was actually ok ........

Just looking at the whole arrangement didn`t exactly fill me with confidence ......... the driven plate / splined boss didn`t look all that robust , and how often would grease have to be re - applied to maintain it`s integrity ?

It seems this type of clutch was chosen over the old multi plate type in order to cope with the extra power ( 58 bhp ! ) of the triple ........
 
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rocketonarail said:
The clutch hub failure with the T160V was also caused by lack of grease during assembly at the factory ( according to the Trident and Rocket Three Owners Club ) ...... The single driven plate of the Borg and Beck clutch engaged by means of a splined boss with a splined hub attached to the mainshaft ......... It was the splined boss at the centre of the driven plate which broke up .... the clutch hub itself was actually ok ........

Just looking at the whole arrangement didn`t exactly fill me with confidence ......... the driven plate / splined boss didn`t look all that robust , and how often would grease have to be re - applied to maintain it`s integrity ?

It seems this type of clutch was chosen over the old multi plate type in order to cope with the extra power ( 58 bhp ! ) of the triple ........
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The final years of Meriden Triumph were a landscape of nasty and pissed off workers.
 
Steve G. said:
I’ve owned a lot of motorcycles, and most brands. Only with Moto Guzzi, perhaps Ducati, did I feel as if I was the brand’s own personal free R&D department.
Click to expand...
Going through my own Guzzi beta-testing period now. After less then 24,000 km, and immediately after the warranty period ended, my wife's '20 V85TT started to smoke like it was running a diesel... pulled a cyl to see the top ring gap at a breezy 7.4 mm:
PXL_20231216_223301703.jpg

Talked to the service manager at my local dealer - "yes, we have seen a few like that". Now going hat-in-hand to Piaggio for some post-warranty goodwill.
 
aebbern said:
Going through my own Guzzi beta-testing period now. After less then 24,000 km, and immediately after the warranty period ended, my wife's '20 V85TT started to smoke like it was running a diesel... pulled a cyl to see the top ring gap at a breezy 7.4 mm:
View attachment 87172

Talked to the service manager at my local dealer - "yes, we have seen a few like that". Now going hat-in-hand to Piaggio for some post-warranty goodwill.
Click to expand...
Wrong ring material- BMW had it on their cars- huge recall that lasted years. I think it was caused by Chrome ring in a chrome bore from memory. Guzzi should address that irrespective of warranty period.
 
aebbern said:
Going through my own Guzzi beta-testing period now. After less then 24,000 km, and immediately after the warranty period ended, my wife's '20 V85TT started to smoke like it was running a diesel... pulled a cyl to see the top ring gap at a breezy 7.4 mm:
View attachment 87172

Talked to the service manager at my local dealer - "yes, we have seen a few like that". Now going hat-in-hand to Piaggio for some post-warranty goodwill.
Click to expand...
A great bike package wise, such a shame this happened. 2022 models on sale here at incredible sale prices.
A family member got a smoking deal on a new 2022 RE 441 Himalayan . 850 kms into its 3 yr unlimited warranty, James Bond style smoke on startup. They took cylinder off to observe steel liner breaking apart , above where the rings contact the cylinder. New engine is on its way.
 

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