No spark diagnostics

Ok so armed with a multimeter, a strong coffee and a big bloody Mary off we go!

So things that I know:

1. Not the kill switch.
2. Earths appears to be good.
3. Power is going to fuses and relays, including the ignition relay.
4.. Power is going from battery to the finned box which is part of the ignition system.

Not able to track any current coming from the ignition system to the whatever the modern equivalent of the coil is (the two boxes with posts that you connect the HT leads to)

Things seem to break down around here:

20170101_084526-1612x1209.jpg

 
Finned box is the voltage regulator so technically not part of the ignition..

you should have battery supply ( 12 V or whatever your battery voltage is at when testing ) at pin 13 of the connector on your ignition box. If not then you have a supply issue to the box, if you do then you got somewhere else and issue.

So then disconnect the wires connected to the plus side of the coils, should be orange/white in original wiring and see if you have supply ( battery voltage ) there with ignition on.

If yes then connect them back up and retest.. if still yes then you need to look elsewhere.. if you loose voltage with connected then you may have an issue with one of the coils.


 
Vince said:
That rubber black thing connected to the red wire I have seen before, is there a fuse in it.
Click to expand...

Yes and it's all good.

What I'm struggling to find is a source of current to the ignition box.

There are it two sets of wires, one that goes to the coils have no power and one that comes in from the engine (there are also some yellow wires coming from the same place on the engine back to the regulator).



 
if you read the instructions I sent you it may become clearer

as Brett said, look for an orange/white wire near the coils, that is the live feed from the Kill Switch
confirm it has power

if the wiring has been set up as per recommended in the instructions, Kill Switch supplies power to the coils and then there is an additional red wire, looped, that runs back to the ignition box and that is the power feed to the box
your two Deutsch connectors are one set of four being green (trigger wire to dual coil), yellow (trigger wire to single coil), red wire is power feed in to the box from the coils and there should be a black wire on that connector as well which is earth

2nd connector joins the box to the triggers, red is 5 volts out, blue is earth to the board, green trigger one and yellow trigger two

you need to confirm that you have power at both coils and thus power back to the box

 
Brett said:
Finned box is the voltage regulator so technically not part of the ignition..

you should have battery supply ( 12 V or whatever your battery voltage is at when testing ) at pin 13 of the connector on your ignition box. If not then you have a supply issue to the box, if you do then you got somewhere else and issue.

So then disconnect the wires connected to the plus side of the coils, should be orange/white in original wiring and see if you have supply ( battery voltage ) there with ignition on.

If yes then connect them back up and retest.. if still yes then you need to look elsewhere.. if you loose voltage with connected then you may have an issue with one of the coils.
Click to expand...

Confirmed no supply to ignition. Looking further downstream now.
 
Need to look upstream... :D

Seems you have current at the kill switch, hook up a jumper lead to the ignition/coils and check for a spark.

Battery in good condition?  Ignition system properly earthed?  Starter motor in good condition?(weak and dirty starters sometimes spin the crank seemingly ok, but drain all current in the process, leaving nothing to fire the ignition) 

piet

 
Houston we have lift off!!  ;) ;) ;)

It's working again.

It seems like it was a bad earth in the ignition relay.

(Note: everything seems to have a relay, so the kill switch doesn't go to coils directly)

I checked it visually but didn't try and move it. When I was going back over the wiring again step my step I noticed an electrical "click", and when I tried each of the wires in turn it turns out to be the earth wire on the ignition relay so reseated it.

I thought I had tested for spark after that though, so I'm not 100% sure that this was the problem but it was the only loose connection so perhaps I didn't reseat it fully the first time.

Grateful thanks to everyone for their contributions, I've learnt a bit about how the bike is wired and works in the process. Perhaps I'll get around to sorted out the rats nest sometime!
 
Spoke too soon, it's obviously something else, once back together wouldn't start, back to drawing board but clearly loose something....
 
redax5 said:
too much reliance on totally unnecessary relays where there is no need for them
Click to expand...
Maybe one of those relays is crook. God only knows how your bike is wired up, looks like a packet of bloody spagetti to me, a problem looking for a solution me thinks.
Ok if was working  then not once you put the tank back on then you need check what has changed or been disturbed by the tank.. where the kill switch connector is perhaps there a loose connector or slightly backed out pin and now you have put the tank back on have disturbed it again.
 
Brett said:
Maybe one of those relays is crook. God only knows how your bike is wired up, looks like a packet of bloody spagetti to me, a problem looking for a solution me thinks.
Ok if was working  then not once you put the tank back on then you need check what has changed or been disturbed by the tank.. where the kill switch connector is perhaps there a loose connector or slightly backed out pin and now you have put the tank back on have disturbed it again.
Click to expand...

That's what I thought.

I thought perhaps it was power to the coils that had been disturbed but I am seeing power to coils, for all wires and no spark.

Surely if there's power to the ignition unit and the coils then the coils must be buggered? Do they break?
 
cbertozz said:
That's what I thought.

I thought perhaps it was power to the coils that had been disturbed but I am seeing power to coils, for all wires and no spark.

Surely if there's power to the ignition unit and the coils then the coils must be buggered? Do they break?
Click to expand...

Al at once is like winning lottery
 
chrisk said:
Al at once is like winning lottery
Click to expand...

Ok we'll rule that out then.

The ignition has power.

This chain of event started yesterday with the engine firing on only a couple of cylinders (or at least that's what it sounded like) I changed the plugs and was good. Going to take another look at these HT. leads
 
Leads all look sound.

Come to think of it the tank was back on when the bike was running.

Therefore whatever is loose or was disturbed happened when I was tidying up the wiring around the ignition/fuses/relays.

That said I don't understand how I can have power to ignition and coils and no spark.


 
Well I'm about to throw in the towel.

Power to the ignition and coils but no spark is where I leave it, I didn't hav that originally but now I do it doesnt seem to matter.

I had the alternator cover off and couldn't see the red light when I cranked it over so maybe that means something.

Just can't fathom what changed from having it running to not. I've checked all the earths, even removed and rubbed down frame again at the common earth point.

Anyway Happy New Year!
 
Call British Telecom , they have less wires , and might, be able to get the phone to ring ,
 
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