No spark diagnostics

cbertozz said:
Also can test a couple of the coils but not the third.
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You only have 2 coils. 1 coil with single HT lead to centre cylinder, 1 coil with 2 HT leads, 1 for each outer cylinder.
 
The Ignitech can be set up with 3 coils on a 180? bike (2 input, 3 sparks at different timings... 3rd spark is calculated 180? to the first based on the engine speed...). So it might well be there are 3 coils. Still not the base if the issue...

keep in mind, the box needs 12V going into it, else you can't read it with the laptop.
 
Davo said:
Is that the chip telling you you have a 120 degree crank or the software. If it is the software you need to select "Laverda 3 x 180" under the Motorcycle Type heading at the top left. If it is the chip I don't know how the bike ever ran.
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There is a set of default bike maps that are in the Ignitech software that I downloaded (which only has one Laverda map) as I couldn't find them on the disk I had from the previous owner. As I mentioned above, the software errors when it tries to communicate with the bike and is unable to read the map on the bike, I just happened to have picked that from the dropdown but its a red herring in this situation. I'm sure Red will be able to send the appropriate map if we get that far.

[quote author=Gravelroad] The device in the centre of the photo is the starter relais. When you are able to engage it by the igniton box, there must be something truly fucked up with your elecktrickery. Wouldn't be surprising, given the messy looks of it. :-X[/quote]

Maybe. Or maybe there's a bunch of scambled code sending out bad signals. I know the wiring seems to be the whipping boy here but ultimately there was a loose earth, which I may have not seated right even second time around. So I've got an open minds on the cause.

[quote author=Reggie3cl]
Clicks from the coils?  You may be able to hear a sparkplug clicking if it fires, coils don't click.  The starter relay - the box with the heavy duty leads in your picture - should click as it operates and your motor should turn over wether it starts or not.  Do the instructions tell you how to run a test firing to make sure the coils are connected/working properly?  Witt and IIS certainly do.
[/quote]

Clicks from somewhere up at the coil end, hard to tell because it stopped happening and then all I heard was the starter relay, which is weird in itself. I'm waiting on some instructions, although if the box is fried then its unlikely that we'll be able to do much, unless we can write a new map (even though the old one is fried)

[quote author=Reggie3cl]Not beng funny, but if you didn't recognise the starter relay then perhaps you should pass the rewiring job on to someone who has more experience of these things. [/quote]

No issue with that.  :-[  I barely know one end of the bike from the other but being able to get this far at least gives someone who does know what they are doing a little bit of a head start. I have been able to rule out a range of issues in terms of power etc. Also, now the box and software are talking (no mean feat, as the drivers were a bitch to install and get working and I am completely comfortable with computers and software) there is a chance to understand what is going on. I've learnt a lot about the bike in the process as well.

[quote  author=LJ] simple things sometimes withclicking, starter motor connection or solonoid.?[/quote] As above, seems like its the starter relay, although very hard to pinpoint the sound. [/quote]

[quote author=Davo]You only have 2 coils. 1 coil with single HT lead to centre cylinder, 1 coil with 2 HT leads, 1 for each outer cylinder.[/quote]
Yes good point. Weird how the test was emitting a weak spark but then not.

[quote author=Laverdalothar ] The Ignitech can be set up with 3 coils on a 180? bike (2 input, 3 sparks at different timings... 3rd spark is calculated 180? to the first based on the engine speed...). So it might well be there are 3 coils. Still not the base if the issue...
keep in mind, the box needs 12V going into it, else you can't read it with the laptop.[/quote]

Yep and it has 12v, and is emitting the 5v reference current. The box processor is recognised by the ignitech 'chip tester', and with the bike connected the software recognises the unit when the ignition key is turned to on - so I know it has power (cause i tested that ages back anyway).

Anyway my money is on the software on the box having been fried by too many sudden shutdowns due to the loose earth. This has damaged the programming which is clearly just on flash memory inside the unit (hence it shows up as a USB mass storage device) othewrwise I should be able to read the unit If the program is screwed then it won't be able to tell the analogue bits of this equation what to do, so regardless of the wiring the bike would be screwed.

I'll wait to hear more on next steps because I really don't know much about how the unit actually works.  ;)
 
cbertozz said:
So there's an error when I try and read the box, hopefully that will.mean something.

Also can test a couple of the coils but not the third.

I'm going to take this offline and take it to some wise folks who know what I should do from here.

20170102_204555-2016x1512.jpg
Click to expand...

map shown here is the Ignitech default map for a 120 degree engine, they don't have a default map for the 180 engines
before playing with the software you should "read" the map that is loaded in the box and save it to your hard drive as it is set up for a 180 degree triple engine
have sent you a replacement 180 degree map by email, will be slightly different to the map you had originally as we have been playing with the dwell settings for the ignition coil to take better advantage of the modern coils

Ignitech software has a test page where you can test both channels separately, Ignition 1 on the Test tab is the dual coil, Ignition 2 is the single coil

I have no doubt that your issue has nothing to do with the Ignitech box at all, they have been very reliable the whole time we have been using them
nor do I have any concerns about the ignition coils themselves, you have a set of Nology Pro-Fire ignition coils mounted on that bike, can see that from your photos

your issue is either wiring related or trigger board related and to check the trigger board you need to remove the alternator rotor and we sent you the required alternator puller before Xmas



 
I agree with Red - It's maybe  simple wiring crap - Could even be a bad ignition switch in the Run Position (That's why I use HD Toggles SX's - No Keys ) or just plain old wires rotting out to the Coils, ECM or Triggers. Timing comes after that.

Breganzie's have Hi-Vibration and need special attention to the wiring harness. Think Heavy Duty with FLEX and Basic.

Your coil's should have power when the Ignition SX is in the RUN Position - Not leaving out the ECM Box.

Pay attention to rebuilding your wiring is solid before jumping to conclusions.

Do you know how to build a Solid Harness - Seems to me you know how to build a Computer - Breganzie's are old bikes - Their electrics are falling apart.

The last thing I want is NO SPARK with an 18 wheeler crawling up my ass and they're diesel that don't need spark!

Motorcyclists are Firefly's!

Breganzie's are like 40 years old, still fast enough, easy to maintain and handle like a dream. That's why kept mine over many other rides.



 
So close but yet so far.

Anyone point me to a step by step rotor removal? How do I use the rotor puller?

(Yes I know you old hands must be cringing but keep it together )
 
My God you got no mechanical or electrical experience! You can rent or buy any gear puller from a local hardware store.

Suggest you hire a Mechanic with Old School experience and save us your pity.

You say you ride - Why not just buy the latest Marvel on 2 wheels and let the Shop maintain it.
 
The bolt is a left-hand thread, if you dont have a rattle gun try hitting a big shifter with a hammer to shock the nut off, in the correct direction. Screw the puller onto the big outer thread to you get a good connection and then wind in the bolt to push the flywheel off. Don't lose the woodruff key, that's the sliver of metal that goes into the slot on the shaft locating the flywheel. Nobodys BORN knowing this shit, give the flitten bloke a break, help if you like or FUCK OFF if you don't.
 
Going to borrow a rattle gun, I know a mobile mechanic that'll be able to help.

I'm comfortable with the sound of wrattling Zimmer frames at my lack of mechanical know-how becuase I'm sure there are others like me who want to learn, and I'm really not one for giving up.

Oh and SF the latest 2 wheel marvel is on the pit stands behind the Jota, and I never raise a spanner to that unless it's to swap the rims ;)

 
There not called a rattle gun but an Impact Wrench come Air or Electric and remember Clockwise to loosen and anti-clockwise to tighten - You don't need an impact if you block the rear wheel with the tyranny in gear. However an Impact does make things easier.

 
Laverda SF said:
There not called a rattle gun but an Impact Wrench come Air or Electric and remember Clockwise to loosen and anti-clockwise to tighten - You don't need an impact if you block the rear wheel with the tyranny in gear. However an Impact does make tings easier.

Can't for the life of me why he wants to take the flywheel off when he got No Spark.
Click to expand...

I tried putting it in gear and holding brake but no dice, still spins. Tried hammer and shiftet.

Will go pick up an impact wrench like this later

http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/Product/Rockwell-ShopSeries-Cordless-Impact-Wrench-1-2-18-Volt-Li-Ion/342595

Taking all this shit off to eyeball the trigger board etc for the ignition.
 
cbertozz said:
Taking all this shit off to eyeball the trigger board etc for the ignition.
Click to expand...

Which is the absolute last thing I would be doing.

If you do have 12v to the coils then the ignition key and kill switch should be OK. I would be checking every connection between the trigger and the ignition box, and between the ignition box and the coils. I would pull apart the grey connectors and make sure all the connectors inside are in their correct positions and none have moved. I would check the continuity of every wire.

And only then, if all that checks out would I be fiddling with the trigger board and ignition box software.

 
AndyW said:
My money's still on the ignition switch or something equally simple...
Click to expand...

Like the kill switch turned off but wired the alternative way so that when turned off the engine will still turn over on the starter motor but there will be no spark.

I have it wired that way on the Guzzi. Crank her over a few dozen times with the kill switch off then turn her on and crank again. The resulting explosion is enormous and caused several patched knobheads to duck behind their tractors last time I did it at the servo.  :LOL:
 
Davo said:
Which is the absolute last thing I would be doing.

If you do have 12v to the coils then the ignition key and kill switch should be OK. I would be checking every connection between the trigger and the ignition box, and between the ignition box and the coils. I would pull apart the grey connectors and make sure all the connectors inside are in their correct positions and none have moved. I would check the continuity of every wire.

And only then, if all that checks out would I be fiddling with the trigger board and ignition box software.
Click to expand...

Have done all of that several times. Power everywhere.
 
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