Paris terrorist attacks

Have a friend whou i working in Bagdhad now .
Situation as it is , but he wonderd that many stores have their goods ( tv , mobile phones , etc) dsplayed on the strret even out of working hours and nobady is watching on this stuff , and nobady is steeling ?.
Hi asked few from Badhad , how this is possible and he told tham that in our country none of this goods will be there till morning . Replay was , whou would stel if they do they would first cut them hand by first crime .
As hard to understand it is to us , but this sems to work .
On the other hand we in Croatia dont have deth sentance . Countries that have what is diference if they are cilled by : electricity , some chemical injection or public stoning .
Last option takes litlle longer and is public , maybede public as warning to others not to do same mistake.
Aniwey if this are laws in some country i respect that , but dont want that some countries push their laws in my country.
 
death penalty has proven not to be working as a prohibitive penalty, it does not prevent one single murder. How could it? going to jail does not prevent any theft, rape or other assault. If mankind is not smart enough to think about the consequences and that we only have one live (at least in most religions...) - how could we expect that getting killed stops someone who really wants to kill from doing so?
 
Laverdalothar said:
death penalty has proven not to be working as a prohibitive penalty, it does not prevent one single murder. How could it? going to jail does not prevent any theft, rape or other assault. If mankind is not smart enough to think about the consequences and that we only have one live (at least in most religions...) - how could we expect that getting killed stops someone who really wants to kill from doing so?
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How do you know that then? You only become a statistic after the event.


  Keith
 
and exploiting their most valuable asset ever since we invented the combustion engine.
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For farks sake Silvo! Are you really that naive?

Exploiting their most valuable asset. Er yeh. Oil. Of course the West has helped them drill their wells and recover their oil for sale. They couldn't do it themselves could they? That is business isn't it? But exploit? OMG! The Arabs have been using their oil revenues to buy up so much of the Western world if you really knew how much they own you would literally shit yourself.
For instance, the Kuwaiti investment company was set up in 1961 and has been buying up prime property and businesses throughout the world ever since. They probably own a quarter of all Houston's retail properties and Malls. Despite being a small Arab State the KIC own billions of dollars worth of property worldwide.
Now look at Qatar. Their investment company, Qatar Holdings, is doing the same thing. Buying up property worldwide. They even own that great British institution, Harrods, bought from Mohamed Al-Fayed in 2010.
Take Saudi Arabia. Christ knows how much of the world they own. It's a secret. But note this. Until the oil price crash recently oil was running at over $100 a barrel. Considering Saudi is producing nearly 10 million barrels of oil A DAY and it only costs them between $5 to $10 a barrel to produce, the profits are pretty close to the GDP of a western country. What the fuck do you think they are doing with all this astronomical wealth? Keeping it in a farking Swiss bank! Get real.

An Arab country probably owns the land that most of us are walking on but we just don't know it.
End of rant.

Cheers

Very worried
 
laverdakeith said:
How do you know that then? You only become a statistic after the event.


  Keith
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well - it is fair to assume (!) that as there is absolutely no country with a higher killing rate in peace times than america - and they have death penalty. You think the killing rate would be higher if they would not have death penalty?

further to that, most killers in USA do not get death penalty or it takes years until its actually executed. Not talking about the hundreds that were actually send to the death chamber and were proven innocent years after by new technologies...

Prevention is what needs to be focused on. Penalty - no matter which one - is the consequence of the failure of the whole system. Rarely people are born as a killer...
 
Just think how many deaths there would be in the US if they DIDN'T have capital punishment then.
 
Grant, you really think a murderer would stand in front of his victim and think "Wait - if I shoot him now and they catch me - what could happen... mmmhhhh - I might be sentenced to death penalty...mmmhhh... what should I do...?" ?????  :o

He simply shoots. Period. He might (!!!) be sorry afterwards and might (!!!) think about the consequences afterward, but in that situation, he simply shoots.

Think of situations where you got a ticket for speeding. you knew you were driving to fast but it was just a bit, right and you knew the consequences and thought - well, there is just a small chance they catch me for that... great day, bike is running great - so what? But you really got thinking about it once you saw the red flash, right? To late...

 
Laverdalothar said:
Grant, you really think a murderer would stand in front of his victim and think "Wait - if I shoot him now and they catch me - what could happen... mmmhhhh - I might be sentenced to death penalty...mmmhhh... what should I do...?" ?????  :o

He simply shoots. Period. He might (!!!) be sorry afterwards and might (!!!) think about the consequences afterward, but in that situation, he simply shoots.

Think of situations where you got a ticket for speeding. you knew you were driving to fast but it was just a bit, right and you knew the consequences and thought - well, there is just a small chance they catch me for that... great day, bike is running great - so what? But you really got thinking about it once you saw the red flash, right? To late...
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Don't think so Lothar! 30 years ago I was flashed doing 138 km/h in a 50km/h zone (slip road leading to an Autobahn), cost me 350 Deutsch Mark, lost my license for 4 weeks and had some points against the license for a few years. Nowadays I wouldn't dare that anymore because my license would be revoked for a long time, not to mention the financial and red tape ordeal...

The death penalty may prevent one person not to pull the trigger or stab someone to death, and then what? You may have travelled and spent some time in US, but that doesn't put you into the position of being competent to judge if the death penalty is justified or not! The claims towards North America being arrogant and ignorant need a little more thought to why a law is in place.......

Nothing personal here, just tired of the unilateral BS
 
Death rates in America being high. OMG! It's mostly blacks on blacks, Wetbacks on wetbacks. Spics on spics. All good for nothing evil barstards with sadly a few innocent bystanders and school children thrown in. Sad indeed.
Have you looked at the death rates in South America, Western and Central Africa, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Southeast Asia and China? No of course you haven't, because you don't see it. It goes unreported. But believe me it is massive and it is not in the main evil people. Just people caught up in domestic violence, simple crimes, traffic accidents, tribal disputes. Life is cheap and worthless in the majority of third world countries, hence little recrimination.

Thank God we live in so called civilised countries.......

Cheers

DoC!

Note: Spicks changed to Spics on advise from Gerald..... :D
 
@ Gerald: 30 years ago, it already cost you money and with only 3 Km/h more, it would have cost you your license. It did not keep you from speeding. Exactly my point...  ;) I lost my license twice, I now try to avoid that, but now I am way older, way less testosterone in my body and I have learned my lesson. But the punishment did not keep me from speeding when I was young, though I knew the consequences. Sometimes it just happened, sometimes I simply tried to be smarter than the police (kind of "outlaw feeling" I can only smile about today...). And many of my friends had the same attitude.

I was talking about death penalty in general btw and used USA as an extreme example. you could use any other country, too. If it would work, there would be way less killing in these countries that have death penalty...

Again Gerald: I am NOT AT ALL saying or even thinking USA is a bad country or all Americans are primitive gun shooting cave men. My point was - and please keep that in mind - to prove that arming a nation does not solve any problem, it (potentially) creates more than you would ever dare to ask for! THAT is my point, based on the suggestion of Ron to arm people to make them safe(r) from terrorism, which I think is simply not working. Belgium yesterday showed that not privately owned guns did catch the terrorists but the official authorities. THAT is how it should work, though it does not in all cases.

@Doc: I actually did look at the rates and wanted to compare "apples with apples". For that you need to compare countries with the same living standard, relatively similar environment etc. etc.. And guess what: USA is leading here all statistics by far if you look at so called "1st world countries". Gun-shot rates are 10 times higher than in Germany, 40 times higher than in Great Britain and roughly 3 times higher than in France. Compared to Asian part of the world, it is hundreds of times higher (if those statistics are correct, which I can't tell).

Yes, USA is "just" on rank 13 if you look also at 3rd world countries. BTW: Honkong, Japan, Korea - all better than UK even, they have the lowest fire-arm killing rates... see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

USA is also leading with the amount of people being killed by death penalty if you look at 1st world countries, too. Overal, its on 6th place or so, only beaten by Afghanistan, Egypt, China, Iraq and Pakistan. See: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AonYZs4MzlZbdGJiUzRwTVhlM25DWDlPdjBmNURjOUE&hl=en#gid=0

So - yes, I looked at other countries, too, but it did not help. At least not if you want comparable figures...  ;)

And just to be clear: I am absolutely not sure if these statistics are accurate. I would also have assumed some of the countries to be higher in one or the other statistic, but thats what I could find. If that speaks against USA - is that my fault? You are shooting the messenger here, please...

but again - we are far off topic (as usually... :D)
 
USA is also leading with the amount of people being killed by death penalty if you look at 1st world countries, too. Overal, its on 6th place or so, only beaten by Afghanistan, Egypt, China, Iraq and Pakistan.
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Hi Lothar,

I haven't even bothered to check, but how many of the countries you mention above are so called '1st World'  :o

Give us all a break would you!

Cheers

DoC!
 
Thinking of the USA as a single country doesn't work well. It's simply too big and diverse and the usual generalities are misleading. A poulation of or about 300 million, regional differences, economic situation, etc... Take the death penalty for example. There is no national law on this, every State decides themselves yes or no. That the death penalty if used as prevention or punishment is a philosophical issue is almost moot. The majority of homicides are crimes of passion with little reason involved. Any thinking occurs after the fact if at all. For the homicedal predators all I can say is give more juice or the Jesus needle. There is right and there is wrong and they made their decisions all on their own. The US criminal systen isn't about rehab, it is a machine to simply get these people off the streets. The statistics show that too many get sucked into it and never make it out again.

Another example is the attitude toward guns. I grew up on a farm outside of Austin, Texas and at the ripe 'ol age of eight I got my first .22 rifle. My job was to shoot rattlesnakes and all of the damned feral cats let loose by the city folks who would dump them off in our area. I learned quite quickly (now outdated) concepts like thinking, situational awareness, how nature works, and all sorts of stuff. Strangely enough I never felt the need or urge to go on the rampage in any of the schools I attended. The gun was simply another tool to be used for the appropriate job. Put food on the table too. No, never ate any cats but rattlesnake tastes like chicken and we had a lot of deer, quail, and doves running around too. Yum.

I think one thing that makes the USA an easy target for the rest of the world is an ability of too many of its citizens to show their asses in front of the media. Once you are bombarded by looking at a bunch of fuckwits you think they are all like that. I would like to think that is not the case  :D.

Tom

 
DoC! said:
My apologies Piet. I should have said:

The development of the modern world has come from the West and we should learn from that.

Cheers

DoC!

PS: The Arab guy in Henry's vid is the most free thinking and astute Arab I have ever heard. He is absolutely spot on in his interview. Unfortunately most other educated Arabs want to keep the uneducated masses in the Dark Ages to protect their own status/positions.
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I can accept that DoC!.

I think Silvo does have a very valid point though.  The middle east has been a ping-pong ball for the western world for quite some time.  Their resulting wealth from oil exploitation has only come about since the early 60's as they managed to reduce western influence to a certain degree.  They have even been able to sort their own animosities to form OPEC in order to compete with other global oil players, to the extent they now have us by the balls.  ::)

But it seems the terrorism threat doesn't stem from the wealthy arab countries, it is the under-developed run-down countries in which the "religious" fanatics have found a foothold, as well as enough cannon fodder for their campaign.  Add to these the de-ranged fuckwits that are mostly too stupid to piss a hole in snow that live in our societies, you have a very real and dangerous threat on your hands.  They believe they are on a mission...

piet
 
Davo said:
How short and selective our memory, eh? remember a time called the "Dark Ages"? Nah, thought not. If it hadn't been for Arabic learning and the transfer of that knowledge to Europe as we came out of the dark ages we would not have modern medicine, mathematics, in fact most of our science and literature. The poor bloody arabs however have not made much of an advance in societal issues and are still living in tribal feudalism.
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you are quite wrong davo

the 'dark ages were the direct result of the arab invasions west of n. africa and the iberian peninsular and s. france and east into what is now israel, jordan, iraq, syria, iran, afghanistan and up into central asia. these conquests completely cut europe off from the rest of the world with which it had traded both goods and ideas, especially asia.
most of the ideas in the diciplines you mention, medicine, mathematics, science and literature, were taken from the various peoples they conquered and did not originate with them. they did very little to develop anything just using what they had learnt.
as these ideas were passed into europe (much of it through the crusaders) it began to be developed.this also encouraged the founding of so many universities in europe which were instrumental in its developement.
as technology improved, europeans were able to travel again, by sea, and this opened up trade once again, the whole purpose of the great expeditions of the later middle ages and this in turn spurred further development.
the arab influence on europe of all these things is really quite minimal. the europeans took what they knew and what they did learn from the arabs and made it into what we have today. the main role played by the arabs was to be such a persisent danger that it was necessary to develop better weapons to defeat them - back then, spain was really quite good at it which is why it became the superpower of the day.
the idea that the arabs gave us so much is ludicrous, they haven't given the world anything of note in almost 1000 years unless butchering conquered foes counts - they were and are very good at that
 
Laverdalothar said:
No, it is still difficult, as the books have all been translated several times, interpreted, re-printed etc. etc. etc. Seeing also, that there were way more gospels written than the ones in the new testament exist today simply shows that there was a selection process of what has to go into the bible and what not. The old testament f.e. is a bunch of stories that were long time told from parents to children over decades and for sure have been altered, added or some points have been forgotten, until someone took the time to actually write it down (keep in mind that many of the stories in the old testament happened when there was no written word existing or at least not commonly understood...).
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the so called gospels you are talking about are all fake and have no substance.
of course there was a selection process, which was, is this God inspired?

the pentateuch or torah was written by moses. certainly from that time on there were no changes due to the way the scribes copied the scrolls using a numerical value for each letter, sub totaling each line and making a final total for the scroll. this had to match exactly the one being copied. if at any stage it didn't the new one was destroyed and they started again.
 
Paul Marx said:
The fight for freedom implies offending people and sometimes killing them.
People who defend darkness rather than light will of course like vampires always shun light.
Nazis were offended by jews.

You can ridicule any ideology but not people.
Religion is an ideology and as such can be ridiculed. Any religion. To do so is not to ridicule the religions followers.

Paul
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nicely put, paul
 
chrisk said:
:o I just looked up my King James Bible, looked at a picture of Christ  :o surely you're not telling me that the pictures of Christ I see are incorrect? They depict an anglo/white man with blonde hair and beard. >:( I fear I've been hood winked by the Europeans.
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josephus, who actually saw Jesus, described Him quite well - He sure wasn't blond, in any sense
 
DoC, of course we all understand their massive wealth so why aren't the Moslem radicals waging Jihad against the greedy rich Saudi oil barons? I'd like to because every time I buy petrol at the moment I see the price is dropping just because the Arabs are trying to wipe out the US fracking industry. I actually don't mind this but we all know the price will rise on a whim again. It must be nice to have a few spare bucks to play games with whole economies.

You would have to have been living in a cave to think that the West hasn't been exploiting the Arabs since oil was first discovered. You make it sound like you're doing them a favour when you say they couldn't do it themselves. Is this a reflection of how we think and feel about them, do we think they're that stupid? What other reason has made the radical Moslems so anti US and anti the West? Do they think we're naughty boys because we don't go to church? Was it the TV shows like "Days of out Lives", "Gilligans Island", "Americas got Talent"? MacDonalds and Burger King? Come on, it's pure and simple, it's America, along with the French, the British, the Germans and every one else who could get a look in after the First World War. None of them were there to buy dates were they?

But that's how the system was set up back then. In Australia we still foolishly let any foreign investor have 100% ownership of mining and exploration companies so a lot of the profit floats off shore. Ask any Aussie about this and they wouldn't have a clue. They think 75% of the population is employed by the mining industry. In every other country, including Iran and Iraq, they've learnt a lesson and so now there's a partnership ratio of 49%/51% in favour of the government. Sure the foreign partner brings in expertise, equipment and finance in exchange for profit but it didn't always be that way.

This arrangement is only recent, historically the West has just taken the profit and left nothing else, which is my whole point. These people are angry and becoming more so, not with you or me but all Western culture and not just about the oil. The West has let these countries lag behind in social, health and economic standards because we've used our military might for nearly a century to protect our businesses and companies while they drain their country of it's own wealth. Funny enough we're seeing a similar scenario play out in the US and Australia where successive governments pander to the big end of town at the expense of the people. The Moslems weren't always angry so why are they now? Id be pissed off too, wouldn't you?



 
They feel threatened by the cultural shift as well,similarly the Russians and just about everywhere else.But at least we don't want to kill anyone because the local Hamburger Joint is now a Maccas.
What I definably don't get is the Ozzie local Muslim Dissident who grows up eating Maccas but at 18 thinks flying to Sirria and getting trained to stop this cultural attack while still eating Maccas  at the Airport on the way to War.
 
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