Proof of ownership

In The Sopranos , Phil Leotardo was really pissed off by the fact that when his family first arrived in the USA , a mistake was made by immigration which changed his family name from Leonardo to the aforementioned Leotardo ......... So instead of being named after the inventor of the helicopter , he ended up being named after something a ballet dancer prances around in ........

I would have thought that he could just call himself Leonardo if he wanted to ........ In any official documentation arrived with the incorrect name , then just write back telling them they had made a spelling mistake ..... ( Or apply to the American version of Somerset House ...... ) ......


I receive documentation now and again with a H added incorrectly to my first name , or the last three letters of my surname altered to a more common spelling of the same name ........ As long as the important people ( banks , pensions , tax etc ) have got it right , then I don`t worry about it ........



Talking about names and identity ........ Adolf Hitler wasn`t really Adolf Hitler at all ....... His name , if anything , should have been Adolf Schicklgruber , which was his paternal grandmother`s name ...... His paternal grandfather apparently did a runner so no one knows his name ........ a bloke called Heidler then moved in , and Hitler`s dad took the Heidler name , as did his brothers and sisters ..... although this Heidler guy was just an interloper , with no actual family connection ....... Later on , Heidler was mis-spelt , or mis -read , by officialdom at some stage , so Heidler became Hitler ....... ( Just like Phil .... ) .......

I only mention this , ( in case you were wondering ) ..... because my grandparents had a couple of giant 78 rpm records , which were recorded in the USA during WW2 by an American journalist / broadcaster by the name of Quentin Reynolds .....

These records were titled " Dear Mr S " ........ and took the form of an open letter / verbal piss take ..... basically telling Hitler that no one was going to take him seriously with a name like Schicklgruber , so he could stick the swastika where the sun don`t shine ... ( or words to that effect ) ......

You tell him , Quentin ...........
 
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I recently spotted a bike in an auction which I knew to have been stolen in 1997. I informed the auctioneers, who pulled the bike from the auction - it was being sold with no keys and no documents. I traced the person who’d had the bike nicked, they still had the V5. DVLA and police said V5 was not proof of ownership and too much time had passed. Auctioneers have hung onto the bike awaiting resolution between the various parties. Bike is a classic.
 
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smlav said:
I recently spotted a bike in an auction which I knew to have been stolen in 1997. I informed the auctioneers, who pulled the bike from the auction - it was being sold with no keys and no documents. I traced the person who’d had the bike nicked, they still had the V5. DVLA and police said V5 was not proof of ownership and too much time had passed. Auctioneers have hung onto the bike awaiting resolution between the various parties. Bike is a classic.
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If original owner got an insurance payout- the bike could belong to insurance company. Similar story about an Austin Healey for sale in the U.S. - original owner had log book and keys, the keys fitted and worked, he got that car back.
I do hope the bike goes back to true owner, but this is exactly the problem with V5 being not fit for purpose in my opinion. Police not interested…now there’s a surprise.🙄
 
Whenever I purchase a vehicle , I always keep the sales invoice , plus bank account print outs which show payment to the trader involved ..... plus all paperwork which may have come with the vehicle ......... as V5`s are not proof , then all the related previous owners invoices and documents , service records etc. that you can collect and keep , may be your only option to help prove ownership .

This is easier when dealing with a registered trader ...... private transactions are another matter , but proof of bank payments must surely help ....... Not so sure about dealing in cash only ......

As for acquiring a V5 for a vehicle , but having no proof of ownership due to lack of previous records ......... having a form of ownership deeds as you would for a house isn`t going to be a realistic option ..... you can`t have a bike legally identified , and registered in the same way as you would a property ......... A house which appears on the Land Registry isn`t likely to be wheeled away in the middle of the night , and have it`s identity changed ........ Having that form of owner registration applied to a motorcycle just isn`t going to be practical .......

Maybe you could arrange for any transactions to be made through a solicitor , to ensure that all invoices and cash or bank transactions between you and the vendor are legally watertight , but that wouldn`t cover any previous history relating to the bike ....... and anyway , who is really going to go through all that hassle .........

As for old barn finds with no paperwork or registration details ....... with a bit of luck any previous owner who may have a claim to ownership is now either incapacitated , or even better dead ........ In which case the V5 and a solid invoice backed up with proof of money transaction will have to do ......

At the end of the day , as far as V5`s are concerned ........ I guess the government would say it`s not their job to prove ownership , that`s down to you .......
If you can , then fine ......... If not ...................

HPI checks , and DVLA checks may help put your mind at rest for a relatively recent vehicle .......... Other than that ......... Possession is 99% of the law so they say ......... Mind you , they also say that all property is theft .........
 
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rocketonarail said:
Whenever I purchase a vehicle , I always keep the sales invoice , plus bank account print outs which show payment to the trader involved ..... plus all paperwork which may have come with the vehicle ......... as V5`s are not proof , then all the related previous owners invoices and documents , service records etc. that you can collect and keep , may be your only option to help prove ownership .

This is easier when dealing with a registered trader ...... private transactions are another matter , but proof of bank payments must surely help ....... Not so sure about dealing in cash only ......

As for acquiring a V5 for a vehicle , but having no proof of ownership due to lack of previous records ......... having a form of ownership deeds as you would for a house isn`t going to be a realistic option ..... you can`t have a bike legally identified , and registered in the same way as you would a property ......... A house which appears on the Land Registry isn`t likely to be wheeled away in the middle of the night , and have it`s identity changed ........ Having that form of owner registration applied to a motorcycle just isn`t going to be practical .......

Maybe you could arrange for any transactions to be made through a solicitor , to ensure that all invoices and cash or bank transactions between you and the vendor are legally watertight , but that wouldn`t cover any previous history relating to the bike ....... and anyway , who is really going to go through all that hassle .........

As for old barn finds with no paperwork or registration details ....... with a bit of luck any previous owner who may have a claim to ownership is now either incapacitated , or even better dead ........ In which case the V5 and a solid invoice backed up with proof of money transaction will have to do ......

At the end of the day , as far as V5`s are concerned ........ I guess the government would say it`s not their job to prove ownership , that`s down to you .......
If you can , then fine ......... If not ...................

HPI checks , and DVLA checks may help put your mind at rest for a relatively recent vehicle .......... Other than that ......... Possession is 99% of the law so they say ......... Mind you , they also say that all property is theft .........
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I disagree- if V5 was absolute , like house deeds then if a bike were stolen/ new identity frame and engine numbers would have to be changed - in all my years I have yet to see engine or frame numbers changed sucessfully. It would also put the onus on the thief to jump through hoops to get a V5, which surely must be a better situation than the Current one.Your never going to stop theft/ ringing/ stripping/ exporting but the DVLA should man up and take some responsibility- after all if a speed camera pings you or parked on a double yellow then you the registered keeper gets the ticket. I once found two sawn off headstocks down a lane walking my dog- they were for a Kawasaki 550 & a GPz305. I took them to Hayes Nick & told them what they were and what they were off ( simple DVLA search would come up with Registation plate of stolen bike) they thanked me and told me I could collect them in a few weeks time if no one had claimed them!!!
 
Exmoor beast said:
If original owner got an insurance payout- the bike could belong to insurance company.
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It wasn’t insured, was indoors undergoing restoration and taken as part of house burglary. The auctioneer admitted they thought it dodgy that the seller had no keys or paperwork for a 50 year old bike, and that the seller said it had been bought 27 years ago without paperwork from a bloke wanting quick sale, and dry stored since. I recognised the bike as I’d worked on it back in the 80s, bevel drive single, still showing same mileage as last MOT from 35 years ago, probably lowest genuine mileage (sub 5k) of it’s mark.
 
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