Regulator question

tribonnie

tribonnie

Full member
Location
uk
I have 1977 Jota with this regulator, no markings or part numbers on it

image.jpg

with these connections
Few of questions
Is this original equipment
Does it have a gen light function, if so which of the ”red” terminals
If it is original Bosch am I borrowed time using it
Anyone recommend a decent quality single phase regulator with gen light function, am in U.K.
Thanks …… Richard
 
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Yes, OE.

It's just a rectifier rather than a regulator.

Of course you can fit a modern R/R unit, but this will sap even more of what little power the alternator manages to push out...

piet
 
Piet, now I am confused …..
Alternator is single phase, only 2 wire output
Feed directly into this unit
I was expecting one of the red wire to be white, as per wiring diagram
So where is the voltage regulation done ?
Richard
 
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tribonnie said:
Piet, now I am confused …..
Alternator is single phase, only 2 wire output
Feed directly into this unit
I was expecting one of the red wire to be white, as per wiring diagram
So where is the voltage regulation done ?
Richard
Click to expand...
The early (Mark 1) Triples are unregulated. This poses no problem with a big (30/32) Ah Lead acid battery.
Mine has been running like that for forty-six years without hassle.
 
Yes the early bikes have only a bridge rectifier to turn the alternator AC in to DC voltage. There is no regulator at all as the alternator output is so feeble, one is not needed. On your bike with the lights on you need to be spinning 4000 rpm minimum to also be able to charge the battery. If not running the factory ignition you can add another charging coil and at that point you may need a regulator.

If fitting an ignition such as Red's, you need a regulator.
 
tribonnie said:
Piet, now I am confused …..
Alternator is single phase, only 2 wire output
Feed directly into this unit
I was expecting one of the red wire to be white, as per wiring diagram
So where is the voltage regulation done ?
Richard
Click to expand...
There is none.

The stock big MoFo battery soaks it all up, problems can arise when a smaller capacity battery is fitted. But with the advent of daytime headlights on, smaller batteries can be used. I've been running a 14Ah gel battery for decades with only a solid-state rectifier feeding it and a 21W pilot bulb for daytime lighting. Main beam will drain the battery at slow revs/city riding, no worries if revs can be kept above 3500rpm.

Smaller old lead-acid batteries would boil quickly once the revs stayed over 4000rpm.

piet
 
Fact remains, fitting a regulator saps power from an already marginal set-up. Might have nicely regulated current going to the battery, but there will be less of it... so, if already suffering from flat batteries after riding with lights on, with a regulator the runs will get a bit shorter until you need a bump start. :giggle:

piet
 
Hello again, thanks for replies but running a bit blind here as new to Laverda electrics
Further investigation ……
I have 2 coils like the one in this picture (not my bike but found picture on forum)

6608E923-467E-4E74-B7BA-9A67094D9E00.jpeg

This ignition system

467BC7BC-CEE2-4D76-B3FB-EE379788818D.jpeg

Rectifier only, no separate regulator box
Motobatt 16.5 a/h battery

So searching through the forum suggest to me I have updated alternator, unregulated DC voltage and battery probably to small.

My thoughts are to fit a decent regulator/rectifier and get a gen light facility for peace of mind

Any advice and guidance gratefully received, Richard
 
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The reg rec isn’t going to fix your problem even with two coils it’s as weak as water what you need is an alternator upgrade something like what Red does 320 watt output, even with your two coils you may get 140 watts before any losses !!
 
Richard, you're over-thinking the issue! ;)

The DMC ignition system works fine with any of the stock Laverda charging systems. With the 2 large stator coils fitted, you can expect 140-150W at the most, depending largely on the condition of the magnets in the rotor and how well the stator coils are adjusted in relation to said magnets. The closer they run, the more power is produced. Isn't much, but every little bit counts. With only a rectifier and a 16 Ah battery, fit a 21W pilot bulb for daytime running in the city. This will keep the battery full without frying it. On motorways with prolonged high rpm, switch to dipped beam to restrict current to the battery.

Only real-world problem with this set-up is tootling from one pub to the other at night, this will quickly drain the battery when dipped or high beam are in use. Even with the stock 27 or 32Ah battery fitted, night-time riding is a hit-or-miss affair if revs cannot be kept above 3500, where a decent charging level is attained. Apparently, bikes were not ridden in Breganze at night. :rolleyes:

As Maurice has stated, a R/R will not solve any problems, only create some. The charging system is generally very robust if all is in workable condition. A charging light won't help much in this case. The light may indicate the battery is being charged, but doesn't show how much is being drained... If you really cannot get on with the stock system, Reds' alternator up-grade is about the only option available, it does away with the entire stock charging and ignition caboodle. This will also mean you can junk/sell the DMC system.

piet
 
Maurice, Piet thanks for info. My initial reaction was a bit surprised with the system but …. going to stick with it for now. Richard
 
On the oem HKZ there is a "regulator" the discussed item and photo here seem to be a "modified" system, i may be mistaken, the BTZ had two single phase coils hacked into one phase.... there was only a rectifier ( oem rectifier; fire hazard is another description, older folk here like me have seen fire outcomes ). The small 4 terminal coil above the exciter coil is the regulator, a bucking coil regulator, as the voltage rises the series connected to generator coil or coils, the bucking coil produces a negative going voltage to suppress the overall output voltage... covered many years ago in the forums....HTH j
 
BTW any of the more modern regulators or Rectifier/Regulator SCR type ( not more modern FET regulator, different type of circuit ), are shunt regulators, and are very efficient in operation as opposed to series regulators. Though this changes as Piet points out when over the threshold point, excess current is "shorted out" by the RR and actually throws a short across the generator coils, for part of the AC cycle. Could ramble on more about this though back to original post, from memory i did a poly phase modification for two coil BTZ systems and a 3 phase bridge rectifier, should be in the IIS history files here, or i can see if have on file here. Mitigates the circulating currents issue when two coils are in parallel, bad idea at many a level. Besides it gets rid of the fire trap oem rectifier...HTH j.
 
My thoughts are to put back as I found it (took off wiring to get frame painted)
As the bike is new to me will keep an eye on temperature of rectifier and put on a temporary charging light
My experience with electrics is a bit limited so at the moment I am pondering the risk of a fire against the power drain of reg/rec unit. As ever the forum seems split on this question. As Piet say, maybe over thinking. Good job I know which oil to use.
 
Get yourself one of those LED voltage gauges for the dash, it helps heaps to understand what's happening regarding battery charging. Read the whole thread, It's better to know than being surprised with in my case overcharging and in yours undercharging, $20 on eBay.
 
tribonnie said:
As the bike is new to me will keep an eye on temperature of rectifier and put on a temporary charging light
My experience with electrics is a bit limited so at the moment I am pondering the risk of a fire against the power drain of reg/rec unit. As ever the forum seems split on this question. As Piet say, maybe over thinking. Good job I know which oil to use.
Click to expand...
I've never had any problems from mine, still on OEM charging equipment.
I only use the headlight in dark conditions and I ride with enthusiasm.
Done many, many Track Days, on track all day and hooning there, and back.
Drove 1,200 kms. from Corvara, Italy to Calais, fuel stops only, cruising at significantly more than 4,000 RPM without lights on.
Just get it running, take it out, wring its neck, and have fun.
Don't worry, be happy.
 
The Sock said:
I've never had any problems from mine, still on OEM charging equipment.
I only use the headlight in dark conditions and I ride with enthusiasm.
Done many, many Track Days, on track all day and hooning there, and back.
Drove 1,200 kms. from Corvara, Italy to Calais, fuel stops only, cruising at significantly more than 4,000 RPM without lights on.
Just get it running, take it out, wring its neck, and have fun.
Don't worry, be happy.
Click to expand...
In my humble opinion....
Even cars have daytime lights now and riding a bike with no lights is very risky. There's more than enough "I didn't see the bike officer, honest. And he was going very fast".
None of my bikes have indicators however. No bloody use.

Paul
 
I, on the other hand, use my indicators before changes of lane, and turns, to "indicate", to others, that my movements are not random.
It's how I was taught to behave, on the road.
It'd be a duller world if we were all the same, Paul
 
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