SFC wiring diagram US spec

Motoddrob: I can only surmise all your Breganzies without Clutch Safety Levers and Perfect Rivets in the Starter clutch saved your Starter's Ass - If you accidentally hit the Starter Button while in Gear at Hi-Revs ;o)

I'm saying if you can engage the starter while in gear, your at risk of damaging something or hurting someone - It's against the Law without Safety features do so today.

Early Breganzies, say prior to 1972 wiring diagrams, DO NOT have that Safety feature illustrated nor where they wired to prevent engaging the Starter when in Gear.

Other then going to all the trouble of wiring in a Clutch Depression Starter Safety Switch in that old harness why not just run a ground wire from the Starter Solenoid to the Neutral Switch under the Transmission rather then to the frame. In witch case you can only start your old Breganzie in Neutral - WTF is the BIG DEAL and its Legal and most likely will save your starter from turning into ash if you accidentally hit the Starter Button at Hi-Revs.

I'm bound and determined to WIN this argument as it cost me over the 1/2 the price of my Brand NEW 70 Breganzie SF0 registered as a 73 in 73 as a crate built in Canada and know I have the utmost experience to speak up about issues with the early Breganzie Wiring Specifications ;o)
 
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chrisk said:
Bootlace ferrules are an awesome bit of kit, but only for a few do ups and undo, do ups. When I worked on Italian packaging machines, a few various sizes were always kept on hand.

Too many squashes with the screws (when the screw was retightened on a virgin spot) saw them crack down the length which made a hot joint (according to the grappa induced wisdom of the Italian technicians). Perfect for this application though.
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Quite right. Solder tinned only lasts once or twice too. Using the correct size connector also helps.
 
Ron you should have serviced your starter clutch so as to avoid the damage to your starter motor.
Also no SFs to the very last one had the starter wired via the neutral switch.
 
For one thing my Starter Clutch didn't need servicing as the Bike only had 800Km on her - In Other Words "Brand NEW" ;o)

Well if you don't have a Clutch Lever Starter Safety or the Starter Solenoid Ground wired to ground through the Neutral Switch on the bottom of the transmission - I DARE you to HIT the Starter Button at 7400 rpm (I was gearing down from 3rd into 2nd "POOF - Instant Starter Ash" then eventually into 1st ready to make a sharp left onto a side road at night where I had to Flip Hi-Beam and Flip a Left turn signal and accidentally hit the Starter Button on the Lucas Controls in the process ).

Let us know how you make out ;o)

After buying a new Nippo-Denso starter from the Breganzie factory from Italy for $900 and repairing the Starter Clutch,as it too exploded - and most IMPORTANTLY Grounding the Start Relay through through the Neutral Switch in the transmission I manage to NEVER repeat that issue for the next 46 years while caring for that bike ;o)
 
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For one thing that bike was brand new with 800 kms on her- No Starter Clutch rattling what so ever.

I was gearing down at 7400rpm from 3rd to 2nd ready to hit 1st for a sharp left at night turning off the HWY to a secondary road when POOF the Starter turned to ash and the Starter clutch exploded because I accidentally hit the Start button on the Lucas Controls. Yes while gearing down, I also had to flic Hi-Beam to see and flic a Left Turn Indicator all at once and accidentally hit the Start Button at 7400 rpm.

Without a Clutch Lever Start Safety or the Starter Solenoid grounded through the Neutral Switch on the bottom of the transmission, I dare you to attempt to do the same and let us know what happens ;o)

After I bought a new Nippon-Denso Starter from the Breganzie factory in Italy for $900 and repaired the Starter Clutch and most IMPORTANTLY wired the Starter Relay ground through the Neutral Switch in the bottom of the transmission I never had that issue re-occur for like some 46 years of that ride trying to kill me every time I mounted her - Loved that Bike ;o)
 
Sorry for the double POST but it didn't appear my 1st post took because of "There are more posts to display" Whatever that means ;o(

Anyways - Different words saying the same thing ;o)

So what if you have to shift to neutral to start your old Breganzie - It will save a lot of Crap in long run !
 
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Has this ever happened to anyone else? I don't remember if it was your post, Ron, from ages ago, but I have heard of a starter motor engaging while an engine is running and spinning to destruction. I don't remember who it was, though.
 
Vince said:
Has this ever happened to anyone else? I don't remember if it was your post, Ron, from ages ago, but I have heard of a starter motor engaging while an engine is running and spinning to destruction. I don't remember who it was, though.
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Caused by insufficient side clearance of the freewheel. Freewheel aptly named. Of course a collapsed roller could maybe somehow jam the freewheel but it would not need the starter to be pressed while the engine was running.
 
This is a bit of an epic, Ron. For years we've been trying to tell you none of us (twin owners) haver ever had such a terrible misfortune occur. I do feel for you, because indeed, replacing the starter is a VERY expensive exercise. While we all happily report never having had thjis happen, I can well understand why you foolproofed yours with the neutral lockout.

I blew my starter to bits when I fitted a brand new starter sprag sprocket but didn't assure the minimum side clearance and within a few seconds of starting the motor it locked and turned the beautiful ND starter into a tin can full of walnuts. I don't make a habit of hitting my starter at 7400rpm but I'm sure it wouldn't produce the same result. Now ... I think we should pay this old chesnut to rest once and for all!
 
Vince said:
Has this ever happened to anyone else? I don't remember if it was your post, Ron, from ages ago, but I have heard of a starter motor engaging while an engine is running and spinning to destruction. I don't remember who it was, though.
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It happened to me once, about 25 years ago wirh that SFC in my avatar. I do not know whether I have written it here. I was waiting at a red traffic light, engine was running, suddenly the was an enormouse noise like a saw, which is used to cut the asphalt. Then it stoppped and the engine of the bike as well. The starter was competely distroyed…..
 
It must have been treafying, I guess disconnecting the battery would be the only way to stop it, but zero chance of that happening before its shrapnal.
 
Oh, I did not tell the full story, it was the starter sprag unit which catched the starter, so it was a mecanical issue not an electrical. If this happens you can do nothing 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
I made the mistake of push starting the SFC who’s freewheel was making unhealthy noises after a damp night out.
The inside of the starter motor was turned into a copper and steel smoothie.
Paul
 
Chrisk: The drink mix is as a French 76 ' as in "Play it again Sam".
I prefer it with Gin.
Wanna race my 70 Breganzie 750 SF0 ;o)

As far as the Rear Sets go: Their mine ;o)
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Fuck the tiers in that PIC, I burnt more tires off that bike in one season then I dared too.
 
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We've had the argument here before about wiring the starter relay via the neutral switch. If Ron is convinced that it was inadvertently hitting the starter button that caused his starter motor to grenade itself, then I can understand his desire to eliminate the possibility of that happening again.

When Ron first posted this recommendation a long time ago, I was struggling to understand the logic behind it. There's no way that energising the starter motor while the engine is running can cause such a failure. I was confident enough in this that I tried it myself. I hit the starter button several times while cruising along in 4th gear at about 5000 rpm and nothing disastrous happened. I couldn't hear the starter whirr over the noise of the engine and wind around my helmet, but I presume it spun up to it's no load speed. My bike is a Laverda triple, but the starter system is basically similar to the 750 twin.

As others have said. I suspect Ron's disaster was caused by a faulty starter clutch. I suppose there's a remote chance that hitting the starter button may have triggered something that was the final straw for the starter clutch and it somehow jammed. Although it's difficult to imagine exactly how that failure sequence would have played out. I think it's more likely that Ron has made an incorrect assumption that he must have hit his starter button. My guess is that the starter button had nothing to do with the failure at all, and the whole mess was down to a mechanical failure in his starting gear. Maybe the starter clutch seized while he was revving the bejesus out of his engine. I just did a quick calculation of the SF gear ratios. Changing down from 3rd at 7400 RPM into 2nd would have pushed the engine revs to over 10,000. Maybe the lubrication of the starter clutch rollers wasn't quite up to the job at that speed.

I don't think anyone here has a problem with Ron wiring his starter relay however he wants to. His bike, his choice, and he has his reasons. It it does have the advantage of avoiding the embarrassing scenario of lurching forward while attempting to start your bike in gear without disengaging the clutch. It's especially unfortunate if the bike happens to be leaning on its side stand at the time. But how often does that happen? (Yes, I know Laverdas don't come with side stands, but many owners fit them).

Given Ron's interpretation of events, I can understand why he's on a personal crusade to promote his starter wiring preference. But if it was that important, the factory would have done it. And not just the Laverda factory. With a few exceptions like BMW and Guzzi, nearly all bikes with electric start have a basically similar system to Laverda that uses a sprag clutch. So why haven't we heard of starters exploding several times a week across the biking world? The answer is that it just doesn't happen. Sprag clutches don't work like that. If Ron's starter failure indeed happened the way he thinks it did, then it was a one in a million freak occurrence that should have been covered by the bikes warranty (the bike having only done 800km).

Wiring the starter relay via the neutral switch is not a modification I'd endorse for everyone. It just adds another point of potential failure to the starter circuit. If the neutral switch fails (which they have been known to do) then you'd have to push start the bike if you don't have the tools to re-wire the starter relay on the side of the road. It also makes re-starting a stalled engine a bit of a pain at the traffic lights because you'd have to shift back to neutral rather than simply pulling in the clutch. It's ultimately down to individual preference, but don't be frightened into doing it because of the reason Ron has given. It's really only a good idea if you're in the habit of inadvertently starting the bike in gear.
 
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