stainless engine bolts of 750sf2?

Button heads may have the socket size and depth to deal with the high torques required when tightening, but can turn into a royal pita if something goes wrong when un-doing... good for the bling factor only.

piet
 
Add a big washer to spread the load with a nylon washer underneath to protect the paint, and they're great for light toques on a fairing mount.
 
Vince said:
Add a big washer to spread the load with a nylon washer underneath to protect the paint, and they're great for light toques on a fairing mount.
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Mike was asking about engine casing screw's Vince. No room for big washers. Agree about using what you suggest for fairings, bodywork etc
 
mikeb said:
ok one additonal slightly lame question. i'm going to change the various case screws that are SS A2 cap heads to ZP.
purely for looks on these bikes (with their big manly square profiles...), are there any views on what looks better - cap heads or button heads? (eg for M6, M8 etc..). i'm veering button head...
Edit - or hex head? (original, is that right?)
cheers
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ARP 12 point get my vote

1780524965968.png
 
andre g said:
overdesigned
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Agree!

I wanted to remove the front wheel from the F700 GS BMW we just bought for my other half to take to the tyre fitters. I'm confronted with an odd looking caliper bolt head that looks a lot like that ARP. A 6mm 12-sided socket will almost fit, but it wants to round off the head. I delve (thank you Googly) and discover that in their infinite wisdom BMW have fitted E12 bolts to the calipers ... an 'external torx' - maybe they're common in Europa, but I've never seen one in my 70 years. No other E-bolts anywhere on the bike.

Only available tool here seems to be part of a set of 12 for about $90. I read somewhere that an imperial socket is just firm enough to do the trick ... I only need to use it once, because those fukkers are coming off and going in the bin! A 3/8 fits, off come the caliper bolts; now held in place by M10 stainless cap screws ... don't lecture me about stainless being 'wrong'.

Interestingly, the tool kit that comes with these GS Beemers is absolutely laughable - way below even a 1970's 125 Suzuki. In the air-head days they were top class, like Laverda. The prospect of lugging around a 3/8 drive ratchet and an E12 just so I can remove a front wheel? Yeah, right.
 
piranha - i assume the toolkit on the 70's suzuki was well used, whereas now days my modern (triumph) is a mysterious black box which carries a total of 1x allen and 1 torx. i carry heaps of well-used tools on my old british bikes, but am told all i really need is a credit card and a hand gun
 
piranha-bro2 said:
Agree!

I wanted to remove the front wheel from the F700 GS BMW we just bought for my other half to take to the tyre fitters. I'm confronted with an odd looking caliper bolt head that looks a lot like that ARP. A 6mm 12-sided socket will almost fit, but it wants to round off the head. I delve (thank you Googly) and discover that in their infinite wisdom BMW have fitted E12 bolts to the calipers ... an 'external torx' - maybe they're common in Europa, but I've never seen one in my 70 years. No other E-bolts anywhere on the bike.

Only available tool here seems to be part of a set of 12 for about $90. I read somewhere that an imperial socket is just firm enough to do the trick ... I only need to use it once, because those fukkers are coming off and going in the bin! A 3/8 fits, off come the caliper bolts; now held in place by M10 stainless cap screws ... don't lecture me about stainless being 'wrong'.

Interestingly, the tool kit that comes with these GS Beemers is absolutely laughable - way below even a 1970's 125 Suzuki. In the air-head days they were top class, like Laverda. The prospect of lugging around a 3/8 drive ratchet and an E12 just so I can remove a front wheel? Yeah, right.
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Yes Quentin,

External Torx has become very common in the automotive world, especially in German cars. It mostly has to do with ease/speed of assembly on the production line. Owner-performed maintenance is not a design criteria.

M-B used pentastar Torx screws as a theft deterrent in their wing mirrors. BMW has one-upped the game even further by using specially shaped bolt heads for certain applications while withholding the required tools. It gets crazier every with every new model. Good earning grounds for the aftermarket tool sector...

piet
 
sfcpiet said:
Yes Quentin,

External Torx has become very common in the automotive world, especially in German cars. It mostly has to do with ease/speed of assembly on the production line. Owner-performed maintenance is not a design criteria.

M-B used pentastar Torx screws as a theft deterrent in their wing mirrors. BMW has one-upped the game even further by using specially shaped bolt heads for certain applications while withholding the required tools. It gets crazier every with every new model. Good earning grounds for the aftermarket tool sector...

piet
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I've found that BMW's greatest theft deterrent is their engineering. ;)
 
chrisk said:
Good points. ProBolt should sell sockets for them, a little value selling to the nuts and bolts.
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I didn't realize that finding 12 point sockets outside of North America was such an issue. Almost every wrench/spanner sold in North America has a 12 point on the closed end of the wrench; it's really nothing more than a double hex with the offset angle at 30* for the 12 points vs 60* for a standard hex.

ARP fasteners are pretty much a global standard for any high performance engine building, diesel or gasoline.

Cheers
 
The BMW example is why I’m moving my collection of 10 or so bikes to an earlier era. I’m selling anything designed later than the 1990s - which to me was the peak of engineering without excess ‘technology’ (meaning pointless electronics that break in time). Designing in the requirement for dealer service is part of the same planned obsolescence game.
 
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Earlier era, you say, maybe try steam. I spent 12 months working on the 4th-ever made Bolton and Watt Witbread Brewery beam engine, given to Australia as a Centenary gift from England and refurbished in our Bicentenial year. It's now 238 years old, and every bolt and thread and there are a lot is one-off and hand-formed, multiple decades before any standard thread types existed. By far the most interesting job I ever had.
 
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