The new 4 valve cylinder head for Laverda triples is now available

Status
Not open for further replies.
In the Mid-?90 I used to discuss with Peter Haider the Idea to weld some 500 heads together for tripples.
I?m shure the factory could build that easy (even next to the V6), and inmagine a 110 Hp triple in a Market where the japs restrictet the power to 100 HP!
:P
Nowadays you even don?t have the compeditors for a racing bike like that, as some mention before. What you want at a track day next to 600s with that Laverda?
Same for the LaiLa projekt btw....
Okay, where is the time machine to bring me and the 4V head in 1985??
If money would not matter, I would buy this stuff just for displace looking at it......
 
I have the impression expectations are going through the roof.  I don't count on this being world-beater, just a wonderfull up-grade in order to enjoy our old clunkers on another level.  10-15 easy hp could be expected using carbs, with a nice boost in low to mid-range grunt.  I don't care much about top end, my bikes are fast enough for me, especially given road conditions and circumstances here.  Ridability is far more important these days.

Fitting this full kit and expecting 160hp, and expecting to exploit that to the full, will require a lot more than just the offered hardware alone.

Gijs' long and successful racing record has enabled him to extract a lot of reliable power from the stock engine configuration.  He definitely knows his way around Laverdas of all types and it wouldn't surprise me at all if this works satisfactorily from the word go.  I hope it does, and wish him all the best for this endeavor.

Hochkoenig, you're forgetting that government legislation (in Germany at least) restricted outputs to 100hp, not the factories.  All sorts of special bits were needed for german market bikes to make them compliable.  Grey market bikes were often offered with full factory specs, usually 10-20hp north of legality.

piet
 
Looks an absolute jewel of a thing to me...cant help thinking that we are lucky after all this time to have people interested enough to do this kind of thing..bit like Boba and his fab carbon fibrecbits..get these things while you can!
Im no engineer, but all this worry about heat loss? Dont recall it being an issue on a 24v 6cyl CBX.air cooled 6?! With carbs...6 of those too.
 
IIRC the CBX had 3 oil pumps.
Nick, you are comparing apples and oranges.

And heat loss is a good thing.
20?C reduction means cooler oil circulating around, not getting fried.

Someone send 2 Atlas engines PDQ to Allen Millyard please!
 
Not really Grant...air cooled 4v heads is what some seem to think cannot be done...plainly it can and was to quite an extreme in the CBX.  I think you misunderstood my reference to heat loss too..the concerns have been about the need for it, obviously, and Honda showed it can be overcome, with 6 yes 6 air cooled cylinders in a line. No idea about the number of oil pumps..whatever was needed was done which i am sure will be the case here. Do you really think that need would be overlooked by such a skilled team?
 
Its not what it seems Nicko, talk to my mate Pat at Viking Classics in Bromley, he does a lot of CBX6 rebuilds and the last one I saw (around December) was getting an input of parts from six different countries to complete it, and the cylinder head was having a lot of welding/machining, then welding again/machining again to get it right and all of it on the centre most cylinders, Pat was saying that if ridden even moderately fast, they cook up very quickly, but for the most time, there is plenty to be had without fear because of such a multi cylinder turbine smooth torque monster, that doesn't happen a lot, mainly because the cycle parts act as a built in restrictor.
CLEM
 
Checkout the moto martins racing at Spa sometime?  No doubt sorted to quite a degree, but its not mission impossible is it ? Thats my point..if you can do it on them, you can do it on half the engine..and await some results? Fingers crossed!😉
 
nick7 said:
Checkout the moto martins racing at Spa sometime?  No doubt sorted to quite a degree, but its not mission impossible is it ? Thats my point..if you can do it on them, you can do it on half the engine..and await some results? Fingers crossed!😉
Click to expand...

If we must get into this....You're comparing apples and oranges (no pun intended).
The CBX is a small bore engine with relatively small valves. And a massive amount of material in the head in relation to the valves....

Any Lav triple will have valves a lot larger - even with 4 per pot - and the "footprint" of the head, the area it occupies, hasn't changed from the 2V version.

When you relate the valve seat sizes to bore size and then to the amount of material in the head and fin area, it's going to be marginal.
Yes, the nice nicasil bores will help. And will probably be the best selling bit of what is available IMO.

I would suspect that how the bike is used will have a big influence on durability too. The CBX appeals as has been said to people who like the smooth torque - and who ride it at less than 60% of it's potential for much of the time. Honda knew this and relied on this to keep it reliable....

How many of you Laverda owners ride in a restrained manner ?

All this has been discussed before on here. I remember having much the same discussion with Red some time back. I shared my experiences here with air cooled big bore 4V engines.  And how unpredictable the end result can be.
As an example, a very competent design team - Suzuki - did a range of 4V aircooleds. The 1100's are legendary, the 750's not so good - and the 400 twins with very much the same proportions crack badly.....

I wish Gijs all the very best and hope he sells enough to at least cover costs.
 
An old Yamaha TX 500 4v twin of mine ended up on top of a pole at Clipstone Yamaha Ringwood .
Just saying......
 
sfcpiet said:
I don't care much about top end, my bikes are fast enough for me, especially given road conditions and circumstances here.  Ridability is far more important these days.

Fitting this full kit and expecting 160hp, and expecting to exploit that to the full, will require a lot more than just the offered hardware alone.

piet
Click to expand...

I don?t disagree Piet, but for me, no matter how fast the bike, I somehow always seem to want that little bit more power each time I head out on to the ?mountain mile?..
 
Andy J said:
I don?t disagree Piet, but for me, no matter how fast the bike, I somehow always seem to want that little bit more power each time I head out on to the ?mountain mile?..
Click to expand...

Nah, you'll eventually get over that phase, Andy.

Had a herd of deer cross the road directly in front of me during a test ride last week, proper carnage would have been the result if I had been faster/ more enthusiastic.  Events like this have definitely slowed me down.

piet:D
 
the Martin/CBX was always a want for me Nick, maybe even on the bucket list, but not quite, as its too crowded, (TZ500/750, Black Shadow, Munch Mamutt, Z1300)  racing always has the advantage of good airflow over the radiator or in this case cylinder and head fins, imagine a CBX stuck in the 8 mile long traffic jam, on a blisteringly hot May bank holiday Monday in the May day run to Hastings, I know I have turned off and let TOG cool down, and on one Monday, more than once! but a six pot????? makes me think, when all around you, you can here the turbines of the 12v electric radiator fans running full pelt.
CLEM
 
Those jams are precisely why I wouldnt do the May day run..no fun sitting on a bike going nowhere whether its hot or cold! Reminds me of a trip to Arromanche ..me on Jota, friend on 1970s boxer bmw. Twas scorching and through Caen we seemed to hit every red light. Jota getting way too hot. Beemer just ticked away merrily, absolutely briiliant. Thats why i like the air cooled beemers and have the r1200st rather than get all the complexity of water cooled latest models. My SP1 would do a fair job of cooking you in a tailback even though watercooled..the frame gets blisteringly hot, gawd knows about exhaust valves?
 
nick7 said:
Those jams are precisely why I wouldnt do the May day run..no fun sitting on a bike going nowhere whether its hot or cold! Reminds me of a trip to Arromanche ..me on Jota, friend on 1970s boxer bmw. Twas scorching and through Caen we seemed to hit every red light. Jota getting way too hot. Beemer just ticked away merrily, absolutely briiliant. Thats why i like the air cooled beemers and have the r1200st rather than get all the complexity of water cooled latest models. My SP1 would do a fair job of cooking you in a tailback even though watercooled..the frame gets blisteringly hot, gawd knows about exhaust valves?
Click to expand...

I remember an Amicale 750 meeting near Paris in October.
The organisers had decided to take us up to the top of Montmartre.
There was a big demon on that day and a fire at the National Library.
Paris came to a standstill.
There was probably 35 or so Laverda including triples from the UK.
We had to stop every 1/2 hour or so because the triples would start misfiring badly.
The twins soldiered on though I think it cost me a gearbox bronze bush which disappeared a few months later.

Paul
 
I was on that rally Paul, I was using an SFC 1000 that was the property of the Norwegian Per erik Ramstaad, for whome I had bought and paid for the bike on his behalf, he was happy for me to use the bike for that weekend (Andrea was pillion) If I remember correctly the organiser was Claude who lived in Paris at the time? I never saw the oil temp gauge move off the bottom stop by more than a few millimetres, but that day, it was showing "normal" a small oil leak from the head gasket was suddenly no longer showing as oil but as cooked crust.

What year???????

CLEM
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top