To Live The Speed Cleverly

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This is from an original Moto Laverda price list for bikes ex-Factory which I have next to me .right now.

Valid from November 1979

(all the models are on the list but I will list a couple and then you can make your own minds up .  FAIR ?)

model 1000  "Jota"  ----  2,980,000 lire  or around about 1200 quid at the then exchange rate
model 1200    "T" -----  2,880,000 lire    now my Mirage cost  me  about  2,800 GBP
so just to be sure  here ---the Factory built and supplied the bike ---including their profit for 1200 GBP
Now if Slater sold the bike direct (and many were)  then Slater got  1600 GBP out of the deal.
Now Guys, call me what the fuck you like  ----- Do you think it affected sales  ?
Any astute business men wanna tell me that is fair + reasonable  ?

I reckon the up an coming riders in the UK would have loved the Laverda 125 LZ sport
With an ex works price  1,170,000  about 500 GBP .

Big hand for Roger please Guys  He did so much for the Marque ---where would Laverda be without him ?

----------------still in business I reckon--------Controversially Yours Stevio Laverda
 
Crispin-----I posted the actual prices when people cast doubt that the Factory got less than half of what I paid for the bike

I thank you for your lesson on international economics , I do not presume to stretch my point about pricing to explain the downfall of Laverda ----in answer to your points----

1 ---The UK was only one market in the entire world . The most lucrative market in the world was the USA and this had been Massimo Laverdas intended market place from day one, however the American importer McCormack wasn't very successful---probably  USA Laverdisti know why  ?
Following fairly advanced negotiations with representatives of the ex BMW importers (a very cash rich company involved in motor vehicle distribution worldwide with Ferrarri and other concessions, who I believe were later paid 80 million pounds by Fiat to relaunch AlfaRomeo as a "marque", but who wanted to market Laverda in America at their own expense because they believed Laverda were the best motorcycles in the world)  Massimo contacted Slaters  and he was very excited about the prospect of at last having a realistic chance at the american market  with an importer that had already got warehousing/distribution and retail facilities-----Slaters went to Italy and persuaded Massimo that they (Slaters) could be the american as well as the English importers and that they had the neccesary infastructure to market Laverda in america.
Massimo Laverda was a modest loyal trusting man ---crediting much of Laverdas success in England to  Slaters  {whilst I ,and many others thought that much of Laverdas success in England was in spite of Slaters ----the pricing issues I outlined above were only part of my reasoning but your response prompts me to skip a step or two in my hippie biker story] .
So based on Slaters assurances  and projections Massimo Laverda in loyalty and trust chose to appoint Slaters instead ,of the other applicant, as the american importers of Laverda --the best motorcycle in the world. I did say that Massimo was not an astute businessman. He was an honourable, loyal ,trusting man.
It is my understanding that very few of the Jaramas that the Factory produced based on Slaters projected sales actually got beyond customs bonded warehouses in the USA where they remained until being shipped to England and sold as " a Laverda for the price of a Kawasaki"---which of course you now know they always could have been. The bikes sold very quickly in England because of the number of people who wanted a Laverda but could not afford what I still consider to be an unreasonably inflated price. would jump at the chance of an affordable Laverda
In Breganze,Massimo Laverda engineer,motorcyclist, led the drive to produce the next bike in his range of true motorcycles that ,lovely though it was, the RGS was no doubt diminished by the depleted resources of the Factory ----(depleted and weakened due to the reasons I have discussed previously)
High hopes for the success of the RGS in America(the worlds biggest market for the worlds best motorcycle) were shattered when Massimo was informed by recievers  involved in the winding up of Roger Slater (motorcycles) Ltd that large sums of money owed to Moto Laverda were unlikely to be forthcoming.
With bills to pay and other commitments pressing the Laverda Factory now had no money and no importer at all in the key markets of the USA and the UK for which his beautiful (diminished) RGS had been produced.
I am getting a bit tired right now so I will add to this later----but in answer to your points

2 your comment that Laverda was not the most expensive motorbike in the world is a fairly pointless one Massimo intended to build the best motorcycles in the world at competitive prices ---of course ,if you judge bikes by their price alone you can buy a more expensive one .

3  the MV  and BMW and Harley Davidson brands are ,as you say ,succeessful---now--having grown in the abscence of competition from Moto Laverda which has ,in my opinion been hindered by the factors I have related even before its' ignominious demise I don't think any of them would have anything like the market share they currently have, even though they are  poor examples for comparison on your part because of their own specific market niches.
4
Massimo Laverda did not set out to make premium brand esoteric things for "Hooray Henrys" to keep in garages.His target market for the first big bikes from Breganze were the motorcyclists that he knew were seeking a true motorcycle ---they were priced by the Factory to take up the fight against the only just emerging products of Japan (a country with,at that time, no history of motorcycle production).Italy with it's passionate motorcycling heritage would stand against the growing mundane might of Japan but it's greatest Champion  Massimo Laverda would fight with one hand tied behind his back --- and in my opinion with a couple of Brummies hanging on the rope
 
Thanks for your advice Crispin------I hope you can see I didn't need it....
this all seems such a straight foward enough thing but as ever I welcome any other opinion on it.
as for each step in the supply chain needing to ensure it's long term viability ---I reckon The Slater Brothers would be pretty rich by now ---I figure the (as yet incomplete) arguement outlined by myself could have gone like this  ----The big Twins could easily have took massive amounts of the market shares of Honda, Norton and Triumph --increasing the cash available to produce a Triple even better than it was, better standards of dealers work would enhance the reputation of all the bikes  ,further increased sales  of Triple.  The Factory could have tooled up to produce the V6 (virtually sorted in 1978) and then have the RGS V6 ready in the early 80s.

My views are formed from knowledge ,truth and from talking to people involved in all the events I have referred to----------I would ask that anyone who describes themselves as Laverdisti ----Laverda lovers or whatever to think about what I have  said .-------I have no other reason to do any of this other than I know it is true ---------all the other "Laverda Historys"--------gloss over or ignore the real reasons that Massimo s  leadership of the Family, the company indeed of Breganze ended in ruin.

Did Massimo lead along a futile path    or was his correct leadership thwarted 
  have you another view ?    or is this not Laverda business  ?  or is this the wrong place for me altogether
 
Back in 1973 my mate Motod Rob paid $1950AUD for his Blue SF2 I bought the KawasakiZ1A parked next to it at Ron Gill motorcycles I paid $1680AUD for the Z1. The list price for a 3C was $2300AUD but there were non available for sale it Western Australia in those days. At the same time a MV750 cost $3450AUD there was one sold and ridden quite hard by a guy named Winton don't know whatever happened to it. In 1976 I bought my first 1000 3C a 74, bought it used from a bloke who had gone to Italy to buy one, he spent a year in Europe with it shipped it home and I bought it with 20,000 miles on it . It came with a crate full of brand new spares and an Avon full fairing, I paid $2100AUD it was the best purchase I ever made.......Dave.
 
Hi Dave  ----forgive my ignorance of such things  ---- just what amount of money was say 20,000 UAD in those days ?
 
From the Reserve Bank of Australia web site.

June 1973
AUD was worth 0.55 UK Pound Sterling and 1.42 USD

June 1976
AUD was worth 0.69 UK Pound Sterling and 1.24 USD

Just to compare,
June 2009
AUD was worth 0.49 UK Pound Sterling, 0.82 USD, and 0.58 Euro

Cheers.



 
Exchange rates were quite volatile in 1976 because there was a bit of a financial crisis going on then too.

If my arithmetic is correct, AUD20,000 would have been somewhere between GBP12,000 at the beginning of the year to GBP15,000 at the end of the year. Say GBP13,500 average
Today, it's about GBP10,000 - a bit sad for the poor old Aussie $ now, although it was even worse a few years ago :(

Cheers,
Cam
 
so - does that mean I shall continue my story? I was afraid a bit, as it really felt like hijacking Stevio's thread...   :-\ but as it sounds to me, the thread is more about our passion than about frustration (which is sometimes more than close...  ::) ), so maybe, just maybe I can contribute a bit on getting the thread back to this?  Not sure...
 
XBCoupeJota said:
Laverdalothar said:
so - does that mean I shall continue my story? I was afraid a bit, as it really felt like hijacking Stevio's thread...   :-\ but as it sounds to me, the thread is more about our passion than about frustration (which is sometimes more than close...  ::) ), so maybe, just maybe I can contribute a bit on getting the thread back to this?  Not sure...
Click to expand...

More of the passion would be great Lothar
Click to expand...

Yes Lothar, please jump right in.
 
I was scanning my photos recently when I came across an old photo taken in January 1978 in Melbourne Australia of a 3C for sale in a motorcycle shop window.
http://www.jba.bc.ca/JB-Photos.html

It is pre 75 because of wire wheels. I recall at the time that I had come over from NZ to buy a T160 to take back to NZ. I had a fairly optimistic budget - stories had circulated back home of all these cheap bikes in OZ - I had gone to look at a T160 for sale in the same shop as the 3C. The T160, even used was too much for my bank book - around $1900AUD, The Laverda I took a photo of was significantly more money, so much so that all I could do was oogle at it from outside. It was lovely bright red - it made a real impression on me for sure.

I eventually settled on a $1000 T160 that had been dropped and needed a LH chain case cover ($300 new) - I found one for $100 and with a few gaskets and bits had the bike on the road - Quick squirt up to Sydney over the Blue Mountains and drop off at the shipping terminal - a month later - first T160 in NZ. Sold it for $3500 after a cleanup and paint job. Went back 6 months later for a MK3 Norton.....

Point here, the Laverda was out of reach of us ordinary bikers back then - I never saw one in NZ in the 70's, I worked in a British Shop in Auckland, it was all Norton's and Triumph's - The HA's had the only Harley's. There could have been a few Laverda's in the South Island (but that was like another country). It all changed in the 80's when importing bikes to NZ had taken off and all kinds were flooding in by the container load.

I am very new to Laverda, it took 31 years for the seed of that 3C to grow and sprout into fruition. I have only owned my 3CL for 8 months, ridden only 1600mls on it. I have owned mostly Triumphs and Norton's since the early 70's - spent many an hour on the hot rod modifications and riding in a group I was able accrue finely honed riding skills. Even my friend Steve Gurry on this list says to me yesterday - "5 years ago if I had looked ahead, I would have NEVER seen a Laverda in your garage".

My thoughts on the Laverda is this - I now understand the passion behind Italian motorcycles, this was after I met Peiro last year and finally a paradigm shift in my thinking took place. I am very proud to own a Laverda and my 3CL is now a great running and looking example. It is a great bike, ahead of its time for sure. Would it have changed my riding life back then owning a Laverda had it been more affordable? I doubt it. For all the same reasons as I never owned a Japanese bike, it was just as hard to switch sides back then and own an Italian bike.

Nowadays, I have 4 other Italian bikes and 1 German bike in my garage - I can see now the advantages of each bike, and each holds it own place and fans a spark of passion (except for the German bike, it is ugly and souless, the only virtue is it's practical). I still have the passion for my Triumphs and Norton's, a lot more to do with nostalgia than practicality.

Who can really account for the rise and fall of specific motorcycle marques, when PASSION is such a big factor in why we buy motorcycles in the first place.
 
It's interesting how our preferences ebb and flow. In the mid 70's after a brief flirtation with British bikes, my preference was firmly in the Japanese camp, mainly for their technological superiority. Around the same time, my brother bought a Laverda 3C - the first Laverda I'd ever clapped eyes on. I thought it was interesting bike with good looks and definite character, but somewhat cruder and less reliable than the Kawasaki Z1 that I had at the time. While the 3C had its reliability issues, you couldn't kill the Kwawasaki with an axe. The only things I ever had to lay a spanner on were scheduled maintenance items.

Fast forward 30+ years to today: He still has his 3C but my old Z1 is long gone. Maybe there's a lesson there.

I didn't get into Italian bikes until 1990.

Cheers,
Cam
 
I like the wood shavings under the bikes, would it happen to be a British bike shop by any chance??  ;)

It looks like a very early 3C as it has no oil cooler.

My first Laverda was an orange 3C, no black pinstripes.
It was a tired example, and I only bought it because they let me out on a demo on a nearly new silver Jota as the 3C had no MOT.
I grew to love it for good reasons and dislike it for stupid reasons (it was not a Jota spec engine, no alloy wheels and seat/tailpiece).
But today I find myself drawn to 3Cs to the point I want to buy one or build my second project (pile of bits) into one.
They do look pretty and they are becoming valued for what they are, especially the very early ones with no oil cooler, 35mm forks etc.
 
XBCoupeJota said:
<snip>  I have an extended interview with Massimo where he was asked the very difficult questions about the company solvency in 1985. <snip> 
Click to expand...

Hi Crispin,

Any chance you can post more of this?  It would be good to have on this forum a record of what people central to Laverda, especially Massimo, said at the time - and I don't mean just about this issue, but about anything to do with Laverda history.

If you do it under a new thread - I don't know: "Laverda Interviews" sounds dull enuf  :) - I'll add the stuff from the interviews with Massimo in the Motociclismo d'Epoca report.

Ciao

Craig
 
I'd really like Massimo's view since his was central to the whole thing. I always felt the sell off of the agricultural division really put them out. But then I really  don't know.
 
I think the selling off of the agricultural division was more or less necessary more because at this time Fiat Agri was trying to build itself into the position of being the most important if not only manufacturer in Europe. At that time it would have been futile to try and take them on. I don't know if they got a decent price for the business, but I think holding on to it wasn't an option.
The farmers round here hate Fiat.

Henry
 
Seem to be coming in at the tail end of this thread, However, here's some information on Laverda triple prices in South Africa and, for what it's worth, my experience of Slater's.

I bought my 3C in January 1976 from a dealer in Johannesburg, South Africa, whose main business was Jap bikes.  They imported Laverdas as a sideline and didn?t carry any spares.

I sourced my first parts via a guy named Gerry Duredin, an engineer for South African airlines.  Gerry had bought a 3C direct from the factory in 1974 on one of his many trips to Italy, which is also how he got his parts.  I don?t have records of those part prices, but I do know that they were dirt cheap.  What I do remember, was the cost of a race kit that Gerry bought from the factory.  The kit included high comp pistons, rings, 4C cams, three-into-one exhaust system, spare valve guides & seals, gaskets, etc.  The cost of all of this was the princely sum of about R400 (South African Rands), equivalent, in those days, to about 200 GBP.  Gerry tried to convince me to buy the kit as well, which I?d have loved to do, but could not afford it.  About a year later, Gerry sold his pristine, low mileage, super fast 3C for R2400 ? to buy a 900SS.  I had paid R3000 for my 3C.

A new Laverda dealership was established in Johannesburg in the late seventies.  Seem to remember that new Jota?s (1979 & 1980 models) then sold for approx R6000.  When the dealer ran into financial trouble about 18 months later, you could pick up a brand new Jota for about R3500! 

My first experience with Slater?s was when I bought the 3C.  I had been presented with an Italian owner?s manual.  Asked Slater?s to provide me with an English version, which they did.

From 1977 until about 1998, when I started using the Internet, email and Wolfgang, just about all the parts I needed came from Slater?s.  I?d first write to them for prices and availability, and thereafter place the order.    Always found their service to be prompt, courteous and helpful.  All correspondence was paper based in those days and the Slater replies were always on letterhead stationery with the Laverda logo.    Never once was I unable to get what I needed.  Very professional service, in my opinion.

Tom
 
Stevio (and everyone)

  don't stop your thread here, you contributions has brought this forum alive, when it had been quiet. My own opinion is; you have your say, your experiences and thoughts. They are just as valid as anyone else's. Others will be provoked into responses, which are also valid for them. This discourse leads to possible argument (civilised is best), but it also brings clarity. This clarity may be that, we understand better .... or that the issue is even more complicated than we thought it was!

Readers can make a judgement.

Re Slaters we have heard other points of view from yours, that's good, and how it should be. 

But i would say write it as you feel it, raise your head above the parapit, expect other views, agreements and maybe some criticism.
Howard
 
I agree with Howard. I think Stevio has had the deepest insight of all of us of what the Slaters Bro did at that time and even if your experiances, Stevio, might sound as beeing subject to your experiance - well - how couldn't they?? They are, and I feel that is 100% OK!! I am to young (in the Laverda-Scene I mean) and am to German (regarding the experiance with dealers, I almost have no experiance with anyone outside Germany except some purchases of parts during my stay in Italy at Ricardo Oro or Signore Andreghetto) to really contribute anything related to slaters else than what I read or heard about them. And that is mainly the positive side of it, so your comments and background bring some "balance" if you will to that in terms of "It was not all just light, there was shadow, too". 100% OK with that, please keep on.

(will continue my story in the next posting, just to separate...)
 
OK - here (as requested) some more about "my" Laverda history...

as said, I was infected after the return of my first Laverda Meeting in Breganze, almost 3-4 years after my first ride on a Laverda. The funny thing with that infection is that from one moment to another, money seams not to be a problem that is unsolvable, a dirty, non running bike seams no problem, a blue/white color sheme looks great, a broke windshield is replaceable at once and a missing blinker - well.... THAT is an easy thing, isn't it... All that - from todays standpoint - tells me something: a problem is not a problem if you focus on how to fix it instead of the problem itself. Sounds logical, but beeing a 25 years old GERMAN male, that is a lesson that is hard to learn...  ;)

Well - so I bought the bike, sold my RD250 to a friend (yes, he STILL talks to me... or better - again...  :-[). My brother picked the bike up and fixed the little problems it had, brought it through the German "T?V" and I got it registered. From now on, any time I joined some friends on a trip, I had to be - as we call it - the "Tail-Light" of the group (means: I allways had to stay behind all the others). Not because the bike "blued" a bit, but simply because else the others would not hear their own bikes anymore but just mine...  :-\

Who ever heard a 180? Tripple with an open Megaphone at 7.500 revs knows what I mean. A Harley is really quiet compared to that...  :o

Over the years, I fitted some spanish exhausts (much quieter, but now the sound was like a VW T3...  :-[), put in a 4/C inlet cam (yeah - really: 4/C inlet, A11 exhaust), tried 36mm carbs, tried Jota pipes, installed a DMC 1 etc.

One day, I had a drop of my bike due to sand in a 90? corner (I was slow - roughly 30km/h maybe) and as a result, the full-fairing was scratched and broken and the 1200-style tank had a little dent (sounds familiar if you red my post about this years Breganze meeting, eh?  :-[). The positive person I am, I took this to be god's advice for a color change (for the better I feel...):

jotachicoblack.jpg


I loved the look and the fairing was really efficiant, 225km/h without any problem.

However, my guardian angel must have had to much to do with me trying to navigate me through the pissing rain and could not take care of the bike, so it fell and "hurt" itself on the "Reschen-Pass" (Austrian Alps) in 1997 (I had nothing at all!!). Again the fairing was broken (this time to a serious point...), the generator cover was broken, oil was pooring out - I could not drive on. Very disappointed, I had to leave the bike on a parking spot just 300 meters away from the point I droped the bike and called the ADAC to get it picked up and brought back to my brothers workshop near Munich, Germany.

I continued the tour on the passanger seat of Detlefs 1200 Laverda. The first thing I really remember after parking the bike was me sitting on the passanger seat steering at the sprinkler systems that throw water at apple-trees - while it was pissing cat and dogs! Silly tirolians, I thougt...

On Saturday, the rain stopped suddenly at roughly 2:00 p.m. and the sun came out. Within minutes, we had blue skys, 25?C and - 99% humidity...  :-[

A friend of Detlef heard about my bad luck and offered me his Zane 750S, a black half-faired new twin which he used as a demo bike (he had a Laverda dealer contract). With shaking fingers, I took the bike for a spin up the Monte Grappa. We took the very narrow road with hundreds of 180? turns and after the 5th or so I recognized that I felt "home" on the bike and gave it a bit more push. Typically the Zane's are not made for these kind of roads, but if they suite you, you can be damned fast uphill... Don't know if I had just one of my good days or if the others were to shy or expecting me just to throw the next bike away, I was roughly 40 - 50 secounds faster at the top than the next one... what a ride...  :D

I was - again - infected. Now not only with the Breganze type of the virus, no, now the Zane type, too...

* to be continued *
 
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