Too many gadgets in new vehicles?

78jotadave said:
The rider in this video doesn't say anything we don't already know (too many gadgets), but her closing statement reveals that she is beginning to understand what it is about 'old bikes'
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So true. Riding Emily's BM F700GS reminds me of just how much I absolutely LOVE riding the SFQ. The Beemer is super capable, fast, smooth, comfortable and very economical - but does it inspire and excite me to anywhere near the same degree as the raw Laverda? Negatory, big buddy.

Of course, a 1972 CB750 would definitely NOT suffice :cool: But I get where she's coming from.
 
pf1 said:
Now then BFN team, who would have eaten Hitlers sandwich? I reckon it would be my mate George who found that half full bottle of wine under his bed in the morning and said I'm not wasting that :giggle:
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Fixed, George was pretty chuffed with his find, that’s true 🤣

Talking of gadgets, George got frustrated with the bikes alarm going off every time he jumped on it, I think it was actually some fancy inbuilt alcohol breath test gadget.
 
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piranha-bro2 said:
So true. Riding Emily's BM F700GS reminds me of just how much I absolutely LOVE riding the SFQ. The Beemer is super capable, fast, smooth, comfortable and very economical - but does it inspire and excite me to anywhere near the same degree as the raw Laverda? Negatory, big buddy.

Of course, a 1972 CB750 would definitely NOT suffice :cool: But I get where she's coming from.
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and definitly not this example of a CB 750! all issues and quirks in the video are down to a very poor rebuild, or more probably recommission. Non-op speedo, cheap and easy fix compared to Laverda, points towards that direction. Engine sounds like a bag of nails starting up. Weird, mega fugly silencers kill performance. Had the bike been properly sorted and had she been given a good briefing, her experience would have been hassle free...
 
It's definitely a head-scratcher riding someone else's bike if it has idiosyncrasies and they dont mention it beforehand. I had a quick spin on a supposedly fully sorted GT Bevel Ducati, but wasn't told it wouldn't select 2nd gear without a slight foot movement on the gear lever in the opposite direction first. The same bloke owned a Bultaco 2-stroke race bike with a very sharp power band; he built his own expansion chamber and a TZ 4 leader suicide on first application of the front brake. Didn't mention that either. Learned the big secret on both at the first corner. So a big wheelie when it hit THE PIPE and a BIG STOPPY on the brake. From memory, I was wearing shorts and a T-shirt at the time.
 
'Too many gadgets in new vehicles', yes, yes, yes!
This is a development over the past week or so. My wife has a 2016 Mercedes E350, which she rarely drives, so I put most of the miles on it- around 40k miles now.
Here is the issue: the Mercedes key fob has 4 buttons: open door, lock door, open boot, and panic button. 3 of the buttons mysteriously quit working; only the panic button works. You can start the vehicle with the fob, but you cannot lock or unlock the doors or the boot. A new battery did not help.
New vehicles, not to worry; a new one will be available, eh?
Just buy a new fob from the dealer: price $987 USD, plus 1-2 hours to program it at $300/hr. What, are you using dial-up, FFS?
Not wanting to go down that route, I buy a new knock-off fob from the internet for $50 and contact my Israeli sources in the automobile business; they can crack anything. Sad day for me; they tell me no one has cracked the code on Mercedes vehicles after the 2014 model year, and you most definitely cannot use a knock-off fob.
Not to be discouraged, I buy a genuine Mercedes key fob from an automobile dismantler and begin the search for an automobile locksmith wizard. Now, 6 days later, following extensive internet searches and close to 20 in-depth telephone calls, all of which ended with the statement, "no one has cracked the codes yet". FFS!
Today, Avi the Israeli calls me and says, "I know a guy." There is hope.

Recently, 8 months ago, the key fob to my 2010 Jeep Grand Cherokee cracked after 16 years of use. From Amazon, I bought a new knock-off Jeep key fob for $20, and for another $60 I bought a "Simple Key' fob programmer box (it came with a fob), good for any Jeep, Dodge, or Chrysler vehicle. As long as you have the original fob, you can program as many new fobs as you want. 10 minutes of work, and I had 2 new fobs(y)(y)

I thought the Mercedes would be the same deal; FFS, I was wrong.:eek:
 
It's called legal blackmail, Dave. New Skoda (VW-Audi) key and programming after towing the car to the dealer - A$580 plus $350 for programming. The old key will at least unlock the driver's door, so good for emergency entry.

This key fob stuff is total bullshit.
 
My Ducati Multistrada came with a remote key fob. Bike unlocks when the fob is within a couple of metres. All you need to do is flick the kill switch to the "Run" position and hit the start button. Convenient when it all works, but a pain in the arse if something goes wrong.

The fob has an internal button battery that allows it to transmit the unlock signal from a distance away. If it goes flat, the bike won't unlock. That happened to me once, but luckily I was at home when it happened so I wasn't stuck in the middle of nowhere with a dead bike. I had no other way to unlock the bike so after that incident I always had a couple of spare fob batteries stashed on the bike.

When new, the bike would have come with a "passive" key that has no battery. It just has an RFID chip that'll unlock the bike if you get it really close to the antenna of bike's security system. If you lose both the active and passive keys, the last backup is a 4-digit PIN that you can enter and it'll switch the bike on.

But I bought the bike second hand and the passive key was missing. The bloke who sold it to me said he didn't know the 4-digit PIN either. So all I had was the one active key. No backup. There's no way for an owner to read the existing PIN or program a new one, so it has to go back to the dealer to get that sorted. The nearest Ducati dealer is 200km from where I live so I never got around to doing that during the couple of years I owned the bike.

I sold the bike last year and the guy buying it wasn't happy with that situation. So I did what I should have done when I first bought the bike and took it to the dealer to get the PIN re-programmed and buy a spare active key fob (for some reason they were unable to re-issue a spare passive key). I don't remember the exact cost, but it was several hundred bucks. Not to mention a full day on the road to get there and back.

Call me a Luddite, but I much prefer the old fashioned key lock. It may not be as secure, but at least it's user fixable if it fucks up or if you lose the key. There are plenty of other measures you can take to improve security if you want to.
 
Apparently the number one method of car theft today is people hacking remote keys as they are being used, to then use the code to steal the car later. I am a luddite like you Cam, and very happy to be one. Both my kids have similar model CBR Hondas, and triyng to sort an issue I swapped the ecu boxes, easy peasy, but the ecu box needs the corresponding ignition lock, which is riveted to the triple clamp. It is not necessarily easy peasy, even with a key lock.
 
Tippie said:
Apparently the number one method of car theft today is people hacking remote keys as they are being used, to then use the code to steal the car later.
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Sounds like the newfangled remote key is making it easier for thieves, so long as they have a scanner to read the signal it's transmitting.

I used to wonder how the remote key worked. Either the bike is sending out a continuous signal 24/7, looking for a response from the active key. Or it's the other way around with the key transmitting the signal looking for a response from the bike. Either way, battery power is continually being used to keep the bike and key awake so they can communicate at any time, whether you're riding or not. There's no off switch on the key. No wonder I had to replace the fob keys several times.

The other thing that used to scare me about the key is that you could actually start the bike and ride away from the key.

For example, let's say you stop at a service station and pull a handkerchief out of your pocket to wipe your visor. But while doing so, the handkerchief pulls the key out of your pocket and it falls on the ground next to the bike, without you noticing. The key would be close enough to allow you to start the bike, and once it's running, there's nothing to stop you riding away. The bike doesn't automatically shut down when the key is out of range. I actually tried it. I started the bike at my place and rode off around the block without the key. It'll keep going until you switch it off again (with the kill switch). That could be 200km away when you next stop for fuel, after which you're knackered. You can't re-fuel because you need the key to release the electronic lock on the fuel cap. Even if you do manage to refill the tank by removing the fuel cap (held on by 6 Allen screws), you can't re-start the bike because the key is 200km away. I never kept the key in my pocket for exactly that reason. I used to leave it in a little glove box thingy in the bike's fairing so it was always with the bike. Of course that defeated the purpose of it altogether. Anyone could walk up and start my bike because the remote key was always within range. In my opinion the bloody things are worse than useless. They're a liability.
 
Bloke I know drove to the airport with his wife in the passenger seat. He got out and caught his flight to Italy. The Mrs. drove home and couldn’t switch off the car because he had the “key” in his pocket. She left it running until it ran out of fuel.
 
78jotadave said:
'Too many gadgets in new vehicles', yes, yes, yes!
This is a development over the past week or so. My wife has a 2016 Mercedes E350, which she rarely drives, so I put most of the miles on it- around 40k miles now.
Here is the issue: the Mercedes key fob has 4 buttons: open door, lock door, open boot, and panic button. 3 of the buttons mysteriously quit working; only the panic button works. You can start the vehicle with the fob, but you cannot lock or unlock the doors or the boot. A new battery did not help.
New vehicles, not to worry; a new one will be available, eh?
Just buy a new fob from the dealer: price $987 USD, plus 1-2 hours to program it at $300/hr. What, are you using dial-up, FFS?
Not wanting to go down that route, I buy a new knock-off fob from the internet for $50 and contact my Israeli sources in the automobile business; they can crack anything. Sad day for me; they tell me no one has cracked the code on Mercedes vehicles after the 2014 model year, and you most definitely cannot use a knock-off fob.
Not to be discouraged, I buy a genuine Mercedes key fob from an automobile dismantler and begin the search for an automobile locksmith wizard. Now, 6 days later, following extensive internet searches and close to 20 in-depth telephone calls, all of which ended with the statement, "no one has cracked the codes yet". FFS!
Today, Avi the Israeli calls me and says, "I know a guy." There is hope.

Recently, 8 months ago, the key fob to my 2010 Jeep Grand Cherokee cracked after 16 years of use. From Amazon, I bought a new knock-off Jeep key fob for $20, and for another $60 I bought a "Simple Key' fob programmer box (it came with a fob), good for any Jeep, Dodge, or Chrysler vehicle. As long as you have the original fob, you can program as many new fobs as you want. 10 minutes of work, and I had 2 new fobs(y)(y)

I thought the Mercedes would be the same deal; FFS, I was wrong.:eek:
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Some years back now, but a mate had a wee Smart car which had to be left plugged in by phone to the Merc factory overnight. All to allow the reprogramming of its new ecu from memory. Maybe the same with the fobs. All controlled by the factory regards the programming.
 
If I ever end up with a bike like this I'll do everything I can to bypass all this crap - It's not hard to thief-proof a bike with a hidden bypass switch and AFAIC an on-off key (a metal thing you insert into the ignition switch!) is all you need.

Of course, the factories will have programmed everything so negating their 'features' will cripple the bike or car completely. What a load of shize.
 
Every time I read stuff like this I'm glad my 2001 Skoda Octavia is soldiering on. Over half a million km on the odo and both keys/remote locking controls are still present and work as they should. In fact, both the physical door and tail gate locks always need persuading when I try them out every few years, apparently a lot of crud finds its way inside.

I did not note it, but the remotes have not needed much more than maybe 5 batteries each over the years. The old heap simply refuses to die and when something does break/wear out, the aftermarket supplies dirt cheap replacement parts. Replacing the brake lines and hoses last year cost all of €60, plus a bottle of DOT4 and an afternoon on a friends hoist. The folder with the parts reciepts is getting thicker though, but thankfully mainly small stuff like sensors or switches. Being from the VAG VW/Skoda/Audi/Seat/Cupra family also helps, many parts are shared across the marques.

The 2006 MX5 caused a bit of grief a couple of years ago, the keyless entry/start feature became rather erratic, to the point where the car simply stopped and wouldn't start. Towed it home, wobbled a couple of cables here and there and it started again. Dealer ran a diagnosis, handed me about 10 printed out pages and shrugged his shoulders, "could be anything" he said. Did some head scratching back home and eventually found the dud main relay, without any expensive diagnosing tools. Found out Mazda wanted €80 for the little fucker and it would probably take a week. Scored an entire fuse/relay box from another similar age model for €10 on eBay, I now have about 5 spare relays and a handfull of fuses. Car's been running fine ever since.

Even if you think they have you by the balls, there's often a way to bypass the thieves.

piet
 
sfcpiet said:
Every time I read stuff like this I'm glad my 2001 Skoda Octavia is soldiering on. Over half a million km on the odo ...
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Ditto with my 1995 Mitsubishi Delica. Only 200,000 km on it so it's pretty new compared to your Skoda :)

It's had a few issues over the years, but nothing requiring massive injections of cash. I have no intention of "upgrading" to a new car.

A mate of mine bought a Landrover a few years ago. When he phoned to tell me I asked him how old it was, he said excitedly "It's pretty new ...1966". He's a funny bugger. I turned up at his place in a work vehicle once. It was a late model Toyota Prado with a petrol engine. Being an old school home mechanic and 4WD enthusiast, he was keen to have a look under the bonnet (hood). He said "where's the distributor and plug leads?" When I told him everything was computer controlled, he slammed the bonnet down in disgust and said "fucking thing is not worth having"
 
78jotadave said:
Not to be discouraged, I buy a genuine Mercedes key fob from an automobile dismantler and begin the search for an automobile locksmith wizard. Now, 6 days later, following extensive internet searches and close to 20 in-depth telephone calls, all of which ended with the statement, "no one has cracked the codes yet". FFS!
Today, Avi the Israeli calls me and says, "I know a guy." There is hope.
Click to expand...
Avi came through for me; may G_d bless him.
I am sworn to secrecy, and under threat of me 'disappearing' if I disclose how he reprogrammed the impossible. I can say that it involved me draining the car's battery of any charge without removing it from the vehicle, not as easy as it sounds, as the vehicle has built-in features to prevent this from happening. I drained it overnight, and Avi arrived the next morning with a laptop, various plugs with wiring harnesses, and a couple of 'black boxes'; actually, they were green.
Two hours later, he said he was done; I asked him if he was going to test it. He gave me the 'Evil eye.' He handed me the MBZ's key and told me, "Do exactly what I say: connect the car to a charger for 2-3 hours. Right now it is flat and will not start; do not try to start it; it's better to charge for 3 hours. Only cash: $200." Money changed hands, and Avi was gone
Which left me standing in the garage, fob in hand and $250 lighter, wondering if I had been conned. 3 hours and 10 minutes later, the MBZ fired right up, and all the vehicle's life support functions were system go. (y)(y):) Toda Raba, Avi

Of interest: the battery in the Mercedes is made in India for Fiamm in Italy, branded Mercedes-Benz, the original battery. An example of the Global Economy at work.
 
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