Weaving Jota

PeteK

New member
Location
Milton Keynes
My 78 Jota has developed a high speed weave, starting about 80mph, since I fitted a pair of Avon Roadrider tyres. I have checked and tweaked the head stock bearings numerous times and doesn’t seem to make any difference, except introducing a low speed weave if a bit tight. I have also tried different tyre pressures with no real effect. I am currently running 33 front and 36 rear. The swingarm is a JMC box section with no play on the mount and with eccentric adjusters it’s difficult to see how I could mess up the alignment? I’m beginning to think it’s just a characteristic of the tyres, although not one I’m too keen on! Just wondered if anyone else is running these tyres and what results they are getting? Thanks.
 
Try running 37F 40R, my bike doesn't like lower 30s in the front. If it was good before the tyre change. Have you checked the rear wheel alignment, measure from the swingarm centre to the rear wheel centre on both sides, they should be the same.
I haven't run an Avon since road runners in the mid-80s. They're hard to get in Oz. Are your shocks working ok, lack of damping can result in wollowing on fast bends.
 
I thought all Jotas had that problem!
However, joking aside, I have had Avon tyres that weren’t actually round so have you checked the run out on the tyre?
 
I had a bad roadrider many years ago. It was round in diameter, but not true laterally. Gave the same effect of a buckled wheel. Avon changed it and acknowledged the issue. Maybe check for that. I'm sure Avon would have moved on quality-wise by now though ?!?

On a darker note, check your frame front down tubes, they crack sometimes, often near the bottom of the headstock structure . Search on here for info.
 
I`m assuming this is a straight line weave that sets in .... not cornering ........

Never had any straight line stability problems with the Mirage , ( unless the narrow section tyres started to react to a poor road surface ) , and that was on a mix of Avon , Dunlop , Michelin , and Pirellis , over the years .....

However ...... my Mirage used to break into a low / medium speed weave ( It would feel as if the whole bike was pivoting around the steering head ) on an uphill right hander ..... ( well known accident blackspot Taits Hill , near Dursley ) .... at around 50-60 mph ........ probably due to a feathered throttle , as it was a narrow road and you couldn`t see what was coming the other way , and bumps or undulations in the road surface would set it off as well .....

If you could keep the throttle on , the bike would tighten up , and it wouldn`t be so pronounced ...... just seemed to be the way it was .

Basic ( cheap ) Hagon shocks on the back may not have helped , plus the perched on top feel to the bike in general .... and taller Marzocchi forks at the front ..... ( I seem to remember there was a longer length speedo cable available to cope with the Marzos extra travel ) ....

High speed sweepers were fine , and as I mentioned . straight line stability was probably amongst the best of any bike I`ve had ......

BTW .... A Honda 400/4 I had would cruise at a steady 80 - 90 mph with no problems on it`s original Bridgestones ....... the Dunlop TT100`s fitted as a replacement induced a straight line wobble at anything over 75 - 80 mph ( at least I assume it was the tyres , nothing else had changed ) ......
...... A mate sat on the pillion would sort it out ......

Tyre choice can be a bit of a lottery ..... best thing is to wear them out quickly and then try something else ..... might not be Avons though .... the Cooper Tyres factory at Melksham has now been closed down ........ So whether the brand has any long term future is anyone`s guess .......
 
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Royce Creasey when testing a 1980 Jota said if he could fault it for one thing , it would be it`s bicycle frame ancestory ..... ( he was a FF advocate , therefore critical of all contemporary frame design ) ...... As increasing engine performance began to place ever increasing demands on increasingly outdated frames and basic suspension , tyre choice became ever more critical ........ Decent tyres wouldn`t overcome the frame and suspension flaws , but they would help to compensate for some of them ........

Slaters Jotas raced on Pirelli Gordons , as they reckoned the Jotas preferred them to Avon Roadrunners or Dunlop TT100`s .... but that was years ago , and racing bears no relationship to cruising down the road at 80 mph .

As long as the frame is ok and true , wheels are aligned and balanced , and steering head , swing arm , and wheel bearings are all ok , then experimenting with tyre pressures might help ......... but you seem to have already checked through all this .........

Are you sure the wheels are balanced ? ....... Those FLAM wheels weigh a ton .......... If they were out , it might not help .......

( Gene Romero , when riding the TZ750 for the first time , found it went into a terminal feeling weave at around 140 mph ....... He told Yamaha team chief Kel Carruthers , and Kel replied " So what do you expect me to do about it ? " ........

.... Romero discovered that this handling issue was a little like a vibration patch with an engine that smoothed out at higher revs ....... If he kept the throttle pinned , he could ride through the weave , and from that point on , everything would be fine ......... ) .........

.... Better not try that though ........ :unsure: ............
 
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I fixed my Jotas high speed weaving, and gained a thicker wallet in the process.

Mine didn’t start to play up until cranked over, over 180kph. Getting caught doing speeds in that vicinity will see you jailed in 2024, and there folks is a sanctioned weave fix.
 
Over 80mph the wind resistance gets pretty strong and needs a tighter grip on the bars, and things that are almost ok can have more effect because the bike isn't able to give small reactions. Have you tried fully relaxing your grip?
 
Got to say the handling on my Jota improved no end with the fitting of Avon RR 2 s over the worn Michelins - I have also replace the Marzochs and the steering head bearings - she handles really well - tyre wear is even as we know those front brakes aren’t up to
Much so anticipation definitely helps that
 
If increasing pressure and the check for potential cracks in the downtube have not led to a result, please consider the following:

Has the front been "relaxed" when installing the front wheel? to do that, losen all bolts down the fork except the top one (lower triple clamp, front mudguard, axle nut and the clamp nut on the lower end of the fork) making sure, the fork can travel freely when you push it down while holding the brake lever engaged. Now start by tightening the axle nut first so there is no free-play (don't overdoe it). Push the front down again several times, tighten the clamping bolt, Repeat with the mudguard bolts, then the lower triple clamp, allways pushing the bike down between fastening the bolts. finally torque the axle-nut with the right torque. Your fork should now travel freely.
 
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Thanks for all the replies I have relaxed the front end, in fact I took the fork legs out and changed the fluid (200ml per leg). I can’t see anything obvious on the frame tubes, would a crack be easy to see or do I need crack detector spray? Everything seems true in terms of the wheels. Crouching does cure the weave, but I didn’t have the problem with previous Dunlops. How high do you think it could be possible to go with tyre pressures 40 rear 36 front is the highest I have tried? By the way it’s straight line weave, not wallowing in corners.
 
From times past, this issue earned one of my triples the nickname "The Weaver", as it was so persistent coming on.

Many were the observed concurrences that brought it on. Would describe more akin to an increasing oscillation front to back when brought on. Have to have wheel alignment as a top of list check process. Straight edge ( different tyre width to be allowed for ) with side stand clearance ( if no assistance to hold the motorcycle up ), then the usual suspects as the lads here proffer. j
 
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