What are the symptoms of starter motor brushes getting worn?

G

ghwallice

Hero member
Location
Ipswich
3CL. A few months ago I thought the battery was getting soft as it wouldn't crank the motor over, or was very slow, so I replaced it.

Last night it would not crank at all, so I topped up the battery, and it still wouldn't crank. I tapped the starter motor with a soft hammer, and it started easy. Stopped and started it a few times, no worries.

This morning, very very slow on the cranking. Battery dropped down to 9.8 volts when starter button pushed, but came back up to 11.6 volts within a couple of seconds, but still won't crank fast. It either makes a weird squealing noise without cranking, or cranks very slow. If the motor fires on the very slow cranking, it will start.

No changes have been made to the ignition timing (DMC).

It has to be worn brushes?

Regards, Greg
 
I?m not a starter motor mechanic, but it sounds like the brushes aren?t free in their holder thingies. It could be that when they get worn, they tend to lean, and get stuck in the holders. Replace brushes, or ocky strap the mallet to the seat.  :D
 
Just a general reco in order, I'd say. Leccy motors are leccy motors. If all looks good inside but the brushes ae dodgy, easy fix. Either way, you're gonna have to bite the proverbial and pull it out and apart.
 
Stripped it down. It's a mess. On top of that one of the brushes was in upside down and it had run out of travel...

Are replacement brush holder plates and brushes readily available. If so, are there any part numbers etc I need to know about?

Regards, Greg.
 
Legs said:
Take it to an auto electrician, the'll be able sort it out.
Click to expand...
I would be inclined to get a thorough refurbishment done! Perhaps skim the commutator, damn good clean up, check insulation, re- varnish, new brushes etc etc.

After that it may be decades before you have to worry about it again!
 
I am an electrician by trade. 240/415 volt. I've rebuilt god know how many starter motors and alternators over the last 40 years, just never got into the diagnostics of auto electrical unless for a specific purpose.

The work is no issue, just need to be able to source the parts. Any suggestions, part number ect?

Regards, Greg
 
hi you can get new brushes of flea bay in the uk for ?9 a set { approx} and solder them on , all you will need is a big heat source like a old file nice and hot to help you get some heat where its needed.
good luck andy
 
Last time I needed brushes for something unusual (I forget what it was) I went to an auto sparky who rummaged around and found a set that were too big. Filed them down to fit the brush holders and they worked a treat.
 
I'll probably silver solder.

What I'm having trouble finding is the replacement brush holder. plate is rusted, springs are rusted, so won't hold required tension

I was referred to Andy Wagner. Who is Andy Wagner?

Regards, Greg
 
Either that or your wife just found out how much you just spent on the bike...
 
rowdypat said:
Laverda Paradise

https://www.laverda-paradies.de/shop-750-en.html
Click to expand...

Don't use the link above, the 750 starter is different to the 1000 starter...!

use: https://www.laverda-paradies.de/shop-1000-51-en.html

could be though you get a used part, as they are not available new anymore I think

you can get completely new starters (SJCE as used on the late triples) with the correct gear at www.octeam.de:


Orange Cycle Team
Dom-Esch-Stra?e 83
53881 Dom-Esch

Phone.: +49 22 51/97 07 52
Fax:      +49 22 51/97 07 53

info@octeam.de

octeam@gmx.de

cheers
 
Does anyone know if the Bosch 160 series starters were fitted to other cars, bikes, stationary engines ect? The OEM Laverda 160 series used 2 variants that I know of 160 018, and 160 003. Perhaps some parts from other variants of the 160 series used in other applications may fit???
 
ghwallice said:
I'll probably silver solder.
Click to expand...

No! Please don't attempt to silver solder the brush wires. Silver soldering of braided copper wire is extremely difficult and completely unnecessary. You'd need to get it red hot for silver solder, which means using a gas flame. Unless you're a maestro with a gas torch, you'll find it pretty much impossible to control the temperature of the tiny fibres of wire in the copper braid. Most likely outcome is that you'll overheat and melt the wires before you know what's happened.

I disagree with Lothar on this. If the brushes need to be soldered, don't use hard solder. Normal electrical solder applied with a soldering iron is the only way to do it.

The brush wires should be amply sized to carry the normal current of the starter motor without overheating. Solder melts at around 180C. If your brush wires are getting that hot when you hit the starter button, then you have other problems like incorrect brushes (with under-sized wires) or shorted-out windings in the starter motor causing the current to go sky-high.

Here's a video showing how to solder starter motor brushes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nMLhl2q4s8


 
With Cam here, normal soft Sn/Pb solder is adequate.  Just need a big mother-fucker soldering iron, 150W or more to get the thick copper strands and base plate lugs hot enough.  I use a gas-heated iron, works a lot quicker than an electrical one.

Complete brush plates available from OCT.  These are meant for the later SJCE starters, but are almost identical to the Bosch item and can easily be adapted.

Slow deterioration of these starters is quite common.  They recieve a lick of paint every time the bike is "restored", but hardly anybody bothers to look inside... ::)

piet
 
ghwallice said:
Does anyone know if the Bosch 160 series starters were fitted to other cars, bikes, stationary engines ect? The OEM Laverda 160 series used 2 variants that I know of 160 018, and 160 003. Perhaps some parts from other variants of the 160 series used in other applications may fit???
Click to expand...

The only other vehicle I know of that used the same starter motor as the triple was the Sanglas.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top