Zane starter motor running backwards ?

Andy said:
Sounds like a real pain, almost like they made it difficult on purpose!
I don’t understand “reversing the magnetic barrel”, did you swap the field connections or turn the whole thing around? Any photos?
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The only way to get it working was to reverse the barrel of the motor from how it was before - there are three location lands on the central part which locate in the end hub ( the gear end ) so this does seem correct - this was the reverse of how the motor came off the bike ( it has worked this way for the time the bike has been with me ) - they never changed the brush plate just the brushes - it was then a question of getting the brush plate in the right place - one of two 180 degrees from one another - still a bloody mystery as I had taken pictures - anyway back on the road 😉IMG_0870.jpegIMG_0871.jpeg
 
The tabs in the starter body determine the location of the brush holder plate and the relative location of the magnets to armature. The magnets are off-set lengthwise by a good 10mm.

It must have been horribly bodged to reverse it, ie, assembled with a hammer. The whole thing fits together PROPERLY only in one single constellation with every component in its correct location and orientation.

piet
 
Permanent magnet motor????
Wasn’t expecting that 🤣
But as always, a picture tells a thousand words. I’ve only seen series wound starter motors before this (with wound coil fields), although that might just be my lack of experience 👍
Nice work sorting it out, I still think the shop should have fixed it for you and apologised 😉
 
What threw me was the brush plate which in the wrong end rested on those lands - and at first glance as I had not seen one before - I thought they might locate the brush ie stop it spinning - but Rob pointed out that the bolts would stop it doing this - as Piet says the magnets are unequally placed along the central armature which also threw me !!

I seem to be a bit further on in terms of knowledge and may be a bit better starting but by god it took some time and 300 odd miles to and from the Shop 🤣 oh well every days a school day
 
If that is the armature in the background, the commutator is not all that flash, no pun intended. It is actually quite degraded by what i can see, convex perhaps? If so the actual brushes may not be contacting all the copper segments length wise, ie lack of torque. Glad to be wrong, though..... j
 
iis_iis said:
If that is the armature in the background, the commutator is not all that flash, no pun intended. It is actually quite degraded by what i can see, convex perhaps? If so the actual brushes may not be contacting all the copper segments length wise, ie lack of torque. Glad to be wrong, though..... j
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Yes you could be right - it’s a lot cleaner than it was - and relatively flat - the brushes need a bit of wearing in
 
If you, i would straight edge the commutator copper segments, against the light. It will take some time for the brushes to "self adjust" against a less than perfect dressed commutator.

Additionally there appears copper burden in place of nice sharp edges on the copper segments, would address that carefully with an appropriate tool, best of all a dress on a lathe with a correct type cutting tool for copper, if possible. Maybe a closeup of the comm will show if am in error. j
 
iis_iis said:
If you, i would straight edge the commutator copper segments, against the light. It will take some time for the brushes to "self adjust" against a less than perfect dressed commutator.

Additionally there appears copper burden in place of nice sharp edges on the copper segments, would address that carefully with an appropriate tool, best of all a dress on a lathe with a correct type cutting tool for copper, if possible. Maybe a closeup of the comm will show if am in error. j
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Close up on page one. Doesn’t look great, I agree, and could have done with a bit of chalk, but it looks clean between the segments. I don’t think I’d put it on a lathe yet.
Hopefully the brushes will bed in ok by themselves, given it’s working now and how painful it is to remove and refit 🤣
 
Ok Andy, noted page one, though the segments are concave end to end, perhaps not so for the width of the brushes to work against. Segment gaps looks better close up, granted. Given the starter motor has reputation of marginal application, want all electrical parts in best condition. j
 
iis_iis said:
Ok Andy, noted page one, though the segments are concave end to end, perhaps not so for the width of the brushes to work against. Segment gaps looks better close up, granted. Given the starter motor has reputation of marginal application, want all electrical parts in best condition. j
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Also noted - my fingers and nails will appreciate some rest 😁 shakedown run today or tomorrow- monthly meet on Sunday - taking the Jota 🤣
 
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