You really don't want to skim old asbestos linings on a lathe. That stuff is not nice. If they work as they are, OK. If not, replacement should be the only option.
piet
wanted - moto giro bike
- Thread starter Paul LeClair
- Start date
piet
The Sock
Hero member
- Location
- London, England
Although not ideal, take them outside and, with the wind behind you, wearing a carbon filtered dustmask, turn a sanding belt inside out. Using a length of rubber hose on a rod in a drill chuck, to drive the sanding belt, you can rough up the surface of the linings and adjust the shape at the same time.
You don't want to breathe asbestos dust of course, but every time you take a wheel off a machine with asbestos linings, dust flies. I would't hesitate to turn the linings down a bit, with a mask. Not recommended for a professional who'd do it often, but once or twice with a mask wouldn't worry me. The most asbestos we ever inhaled was in our school class rooms, for years on end.
Paul
Rob
Hero member
- Location
- Midlands, UK
I cannot believe what I am reading here after Piet's warning, so thought this link might encourage a more cautious approach. I lost a very good friend at an early age, believed to be due to asbestos in brake shoes.
Mesothelioma
Mesothelioma
piranha-bro2
Hero member
- Location
- Melbourne
And the stuff that flies off into the immediate environment??? It's the perfect mode of making asbestos as dangerous as it can be - superfine dust particles of it - a dust extractor would be a must if I went down that path. Surely someone can reline brake shoes SOMEWHERE in Canada Paul??
piranha-bro2
Hero member
- Location
- Melbourne
You beat me to it Rob.
I often recall working in a moto shop in the mid-late 70s and blowing the dust out of brake drums - never found out whether they'd eliminated asbestos in brakes by by then but has worried me ever since.
I often recall working in a moto shop in the mid-late 70s and blowing the dust out of brake drums - never found out whether they'd eliminated asbestos in brakes by by then but has worried me ever since.
chrisk
Hero member
- Location
- Brisbane, Australia
No, think Hardy-Ferodo sponsoring Bathurst races until 1978.
- Location
- Calgary, Alberta, Canada
these look like old asbestos brake linings. Not touching them with a 10 foot pole, much less a lathe.....
way back at the dawn of time when dinosaurs still roamed the earth, before law school, I worked as a heavy duty mechanic and welder, usually no gloves, working bare handed, used to blow out the brake hubs on tractor trailers with compressed air, big clouds of brake dust swirling in the air. Welding inside large container vessels, no air supply, no filter masks, maybe a big fan blowing to swirl the heavy metal laden smoke around, bloody hell. At the end of the work day we would stick our bare hands into a big open barrel of Toluene (methylbenzene) and give ourselves a good wash to get all the grime off. No masks, no safety equipment, no idea how toxic Toluene is and how quickly it is absorbed through the skin. The toluene would give you a buzz to send you on your way to the bar.......
couldn't find anyone in Calgary to reline the brake shoes, closest I found to possibly reline them is about a 3 hour drive away, in Edmonton. https://edbrakeclutch.ca/service/reline/ I talked to them by phone to day, sent them photos and measurements tonight, they will let me know in the next day or two if they can do the reline, they said they needed to check if the tiny little shoes would fit on their equipment. $32 per shoe quoted, plus shipping both ways, so $150 - $200 ish + depending on choice of shipping speed. I can live with that to get a modern non hazardous brake lining material with hopefully better braking performance, if they can do the job.
way back at the dawn of time when dinosaurs still roamed the earth, before law school, I worked as a heavy duty mechanic and welder, usually no gloves, working bare handed, used to blow out the brake hubs on tractor trailers with compressed air, big clouds of brake dust swirling in the air. Welding inside large container vessels, no air supply, no filter masks, maybe a big fan blowing to swirl the heavy metal laden smoke around, bloody hell. At the end of the work day we would stick our bare hands into a big open barrel of Toluene (methylbenzene) and give ourselves a good wash to get all the grime off. No masks, no safety equipment, no idea how toxic Toluene is and how quickly it is absorbed through the skin. The toluene would give you a buzz to send you on your way to the bar.......
couldn't find anyone in Calgary to reline the brake shoes, closest I found to possibly reline them is about a 3 hour drive away, in Edmonton. https://edbrakeclutch.ca/service/reline/ I talked to them by phone to day, sent them photos and measurements tonight, they will let me know in the next day or two if they can do the reline, they said they needed to check if the tiny little shoes would fit on their equipment. $32 per shoe quoted, plus shipping both ways, so $150 - $200 ish + depending on choice of shipping speed. I can live with that to get a modern non hazardous brake lining material with hopefully better braking performance, if they can do the job.
GregT
Hero member
- Location
- Christchurch NZ
Agree with everything said about old linings.
New comes pre-curved. Usually not a small enough radius for this sort of brake. BUT they can be recurved using the old shoes as a former.
Clamp one end of the new lining to the shoe - and use a heat gun to slowly bring the lining to the correct curvature - clamping every couple of inches.. Once done and cooled they can be bonded on.
I've said this because of your quote "needed to see if the shoes would fit their equipment" Which did not fill me with confidence they could do the job. I've had to recurve linings a couple of times - then hand them back for bonding.
Once bonded skim to correct OD in the lathe.
New comes pre-curved. Usually not a small enough radius for this sort of brake. BUT they can be recurved using the old shoes as a former.
Clamp one end of the new lining to the shoe - and use a heat gun to slowly bring the lining to the correct curvature - clamping every couple of inches.. Once done and cooled they can be bonded on.
I've said this because of your quote "needed to see if the shoes would fit their equipment" Which did not fill me with confidence they could do the job. I've had to recurve linings a couple of times - then hand them back for bonding.
Once bonded skim to correct OD in the lathe.
Some interesting reading all over this site.
Rob
Hero member
- Location
- Midlands, UK
Frankly bollocks, Paul. Dangerously so. Neither are good.
I spent about a decade working for a major Insurance Company, they had a fairly large room in the basement with LOTS of boxes of files pertaining to future claims related to Asbestos. From the mines in Western Oz to mega thousands who worked with it in The Building Industry and plenty of other occupations. Me included I cut plenty of it as an apprentice before it was banned.
- Location
- Calgary, Alberta, Canada
local brake relining company got back to me, apparently the brake shoes for the Gilera 6 inch drums are not compatible with their equipment, whatever that means.
Vince posted a link to Vintage Brake in California, looks just what I need. Not inexpensive, and would involve shipping my brakes to California and back. http://www.vintagebrake.com/drum.htm
not really keen to ship to California and risk loss and huge delays. Some of the stuff coming to me from the U.S., including from California, has been two months and more in transit.
going to keep looking relatively locally for a brake relining service, if I don't find someone to do the relining I may just try and run the brake shoes as they are. Lots of thickness left on the pads, just really glazed and appear rather ill fitting from wear patterns. The brake pivot mechanisms were both seized up, so maybe with everything functioning as intended these brake shoes might be useable. We'll see.
Also found online descriptions of various people buying brake drum lining materials from McMaster Carr, and bonding glue, and rivets, and doing the reline themselves. I don't have access to a lathe to turn the new linings to match appropriate clearance to the drums though.
Vince posted a link to Vintage Brake in California, looks just what I need. Not inexpensive, and would involve shipping my brakes to California and back. http://www.vintagebrake.com/drum.htm
not really keen to ship to California and risk loss and huge delays. Some of the stuff coming to me from the U.S., including from California, has been two months and more in transit.
going to keep looking relatively locally for a brake relining service, if I don't find someone to do the relining I may just try and run the brake shoes as they are. Lots of thickness left on the pads, just really glazed and appear rather ill fitting from wear patterns. The brake pivot mechanisms were both seized up, so maybe with everything functioning as intended these brake shoes might be useable. We'll see.
Also found online descriptions of various people buying brake drum lining materials from McMaster Carr, and bonding glue, and rivets, and doing the reline themselves. I don't have access to a lathe to turn the new linings to match appropriate clearance to the drums though.
Paul,
Relining the shoes yourself means you need to remove the old linings... back to where we were, asbestos and all that shit.
Rivetting linings is somewhat of an aquired art, you're bound to split a lining on your first try if you haven't done this before and it isn't at all easy to have the linings lay evenly on the shoes without leaving gaps between them. Possibly the shoes themselves will require a skim to achieve a nice, flat surface. The linings need to lay dead-flat on the shoes. I don't regard bonding linings a job for the home workshop, I entrust my re-lining to a local truck brake and clutch re-lining service that also do a lot of obsolete bike and auto stuff. They use a super soft Jurid brand lining that I'm very happy with, a 230mm Laverda 2LS unit that I rebuilt recently needed to be toned down a bit, it proved to be too powerful!
Please remember, your life depends on the reliability of those linings.
Any machine shop should be able to turn down the finished linings to your drum diametre, remember to take the appropriate axle with you. You may have to offer to clean up the mess and re-lube the lathe when they're done.
Lining swarf soaks up any bed or slide lubricant and leaves everything completely dry! Assemble the shoes with springs on the back plate and shim the shoes at the cam with a strip of 0.5-1.0mm thick alloy, tin or whatever you find kicking around. Make sure there is no slop in the springs, maybe use a loop of safety wire to pull the shoes securely together, mount the plate in a lathe and turn to drum diametre. When finished, remove the shims and the shoes should slip easily into the drum, giving you a few mm of movement at the lower lever before the shoes contact the drum. If you've done everything right, you'll have a powerful brake that needs next to no bedding in.
piet
Relining the shoes yourself means you need to remove the old linings... back to where we were, asbestos and all that shit.
Rivetting linings is somewhat of an aquired art, you're bound to split a lining on your first try if you haven't done this before and it isn't at all easy to have the linings lay evenly on the shoes without leaving gaps between them. Possibly the shoes themselves will require a skim to achieve a nice, flat surface. The linings need to lay dead-flat on the shoes. I don't regard bonding linings a job for the home workshop, I entrust my re-lining to a local truck brake and clutch re-lining service that also do a lot of obsolete bike and auto stuff. They use a super soft Jurid brand lining that I'm very happy with, a 230mm Laverda 2LS unit that I rebuilt recently needed to be toned down a bit, it proved to be too powerful!
Please remember, your life depends on the reliability of those linings.
Any machine shop should be able to turn down the finished linings to your drum diametre, remember to take the appropriate axle with you. You may have to offer to clean up the mess and re-lube the lathe when they're done.
Lining swarf soaks up any bed or slide lubricant and leaves everything completely dry! Assemble the shoes with springs on the back plate and shim the shoes at the cam with a strip of 0.5-1.0mm thick alloy, tin or whatever you find kicking around. Make sure there is no slop in the springs, maybe use a loop of safety wire to pull the shoes securely together, mount the plate in a lathe and turn to drum diametre. When finished, remove the shims and the shoes should slip easily into the drum, giving you a few mm of movement at the lower lever before the shoes contact the drum. If you've done everything right, you'll have a powerful brake that needs next to no bedding in.piet
chris78jota
Senior member
- Location
- England
If you are still struggling locally Paul, Villiers Services in the UK offer a brake relining service that I've used for a few brakes on my little Laverdas - so they can handle small diameters. You send them the shoes with the measurements of your drum so they can quite accurately skim them to the desired size as per Piet's instructions.
Chris R
Chris R
SkinnyPinny
Full member
- Location
- Cambridgeshire, United Kingdom
can only reiterate, dont underestimate asbestos, my dad died within 12 months of a diagnosis of mesothelioma, he was in contact with it via the lagging while serving on Royal Navy ships during the 50/60s, died in 2000,
chrisk
Hero member
- Location
- Brisbane, Australia
Not nice, we used it by the truckload when maintaining gas fired boilers. Have an old business partner dying of it now too.
Remains a shame we learn about such dangers, after the fact.
But still, chuck them back in as they are Paul. They are probably good for another 50 years. While unkind, it works great.
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