Another shock thread ...

Alzero said:
This discussion is an excellent example of the two types of collectors and owners: the preservers vs the improver/modifiers. Even when things are new you can see the difference, cars, bike, boats, whatever. One group cannot help themselves from making changes and others are dedicated to leaving things stock using only genuine OEM parts and then only to service or repair, never to “improve”. This tendency is even stronger once an item stops being contemporary and moves into the realm of the collectible.
So who is right or correct? If modifications are made wisely the functioning is improved and usage is more pleasurable, but if kept totally stock and OEM, the market rewards with higher values. IMHO, there is no right or wrong answer, but I come down heavily on the modification side for the things I own. I am unable to leave well enough alone.
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I think that it's more to do with people who are interested in tinkering and those riding. You'll find that those who tinker the most are often not those who ride the most putting paid to the theory of bikes tring to kill the rider. There are of course also the collectors who want a strictly original bike and hardly ride.

Paul
 
Laverdalothar said:
Stick with the standard components if that's what floats your boat. I prefer to enjoy riding bikes rather than them trying to kill me.

Still with my standard frame - no modifications on the Jota-frame (just on the 1000 SFC, but only those modifications that the factory did to the late frames anyway to distribute the stress into the lower tubes). Feel no need for it. Felt the need though for better suspension components... ;-)
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Unless I'm very much mistaken Lothar, it seems that you find things wrong with the engines as often as you find things wrong with the cycle parts.
Whatever rocks your rubber duck.
Paul
 
Paul Marx said:
I think that it's more to do with people who are interested in tinkering and those riding. You'll find that those who tinker the most are often not those who ride the most putting paid to the theory of bikes tring to kill the rider. There are of course also the collectors who want a strictly original bike and hardly ride.

Paul
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I know that is the stereotypical knock against the “tinkerers”, but considering the ADV riders as an example, there are a lot of accessories being installed and modifications being made as well as miles being ridden. Take a look at any of the BMW or other bikes with the ugly square cases on them: lots of mods and lots of miles. The same with a lot of the racer boys in their gaudy leathers and race replica bikes: lots of mods and lots of riding. In their case it is mostly high speed Sunday blasts, but still regular riding.
 
I think we’re losing the plot in this debate. The Jota in question currently has Konis fitted, which back in the day weren’t a bad shock to use and IMHO were good enough for both Road and track. The owner is now looking to replace them with a more modern version. If the planned riding doesn’t involve regular riding at well above the National speed limits I don’t see the need to spend vast amounts on a shock that you’re just not going to make full use of.
There are plenty of shocks that will do the job and in fact there are some Ikon shocks on clearance on eBay at the moment that will no doubt be a good enough replacement.
 
Andy J said:
I think we’re losing the plot in this debate. The Jota in question currently has Konis fitted, which back in the day weren’t a bad shock to use and IMHO were good enough for both Road and track. The owner is now looking to replace them with a more modern version. If the planned riding doesn’t involve regular riding at well above the National speed limits I don’t see the need to spend vast amounts on a shock that you’re just not going to make full use of.
There are plenty of shocks that will do the job and in fact there are some Ikon shocks on clearance on eBay at the moment that will no doubt be a good enough replacement.
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I have Konis with my RGS,YSS at one SFC1000, Öhlins at the other and I had custom made Wilbers at my already sold race bike.
Konis are really fine, no issue with those! YSS, not the best choice but ok, I like the Konis more. Öhlins are really the best I have, Kawa Z 1300 spec. 380 mm but customized, Wilbers are ok. Finally just for the daily use I would recommend the Konis as I have written some years ago. 😬
The Konis I modified and made them longer, just made an insert item at the upper lug to have 380 mm.
Andre
 
Alzero said:
I know that is the stereotypical knock against the “tinkerers”, but considering the ADV riders as an example, there are a lot of accessories being installed and modifications being made as well as miles being ridden. Take a look at any of the BMW or other bikes with the ugly square cases on them: lots of mods and lots of miles. The same with a lot of the racer boys in their gaudy leathers and race replica bikes: lots of mods and lots of riding. In their case it is mostly high speed Sunday blasts, but still regular riding.
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We're not talking about people tailoring modern BMWs for touring, we're talking Laverda, bikes mostly half a century old or more and in the case of triples, machines with less than adequate frames. Need one dig out the stories of cutting and welding the frame spine or the much better handling of triples having had a shunt, bending that spine and quickening up the steering? The post 1971 twins were a lot better in that respect. If people want to tinker, so be it but you won't make a Laverda triple an excellent handling machine without extensive mods, much more radical than shocks and tyres, and contrary to modern BMWs with square boxes, how many Laverda are ridden extensively nowadays.
The basic Laverda setup is more than adequate for everyday use but as has been mentioned, a more compliant suspension will be kinder to old men's vertebrae and buttocks.

Paul
 
Hi Andre, my experiences are a bit different to yours regarding the Konis and YSS, but we discussed already that the YSS are more supporting my heavy weight and are therefore to stiff for you being a much lighter person. I personally love them on the Jota, big improvement compared to the Konis in my eyes. But again - depends on the riders weight or my have different springs than yours - who knows... We should have taken the chance to compare on the ride out last weekend... next time ;-)
 
I first started modifying my 3c to make it more comfortable on long rides, thats multiday runs of more than 600k a day as it was cripiling me with its really hard clutch pull and kidney bruising suspension. This was a 15-year-old bike that was very hard-ridden bike when I brought it and pretty worn out. I tailored the bike to physically fit me better, with higher narrower bars, lighter clutch pull and fork springs that allowed more travel. I got sick of replacing batteries so added some John Wilson spark and battery charging mods. A lot of those rides involved pretty high speeds so I added a fairing to reduce the wind loads on my body. I then meet a certain bloke who was into upping engine performance, by then later made factory bikes that had quicker engines so that started to happen on my bike. Long-standing Engineering failures, a pull crankcase thread a combination of WRONG info about Head Touque figures in The Green Book and idiots rebuilding my bike before I owned it, that needed fixing arrived about then so that got sorted. The wiring by then was a disaster so it got a full rewire. Well before I bought my 3c I had made myself a promise after a small crash and that was I would always use the latest stickiest tyres I could find so said crashes could be avoided when Ambiion exceeded talent. Sometime during the increase in Engine performance that has included 3 different types of carbs being used, a fully uprated big bore exhaust, I forget how many engine rebuilds, the latest spec factory cams, Reds crank mods including new rods, some intense porting work on the head and inlet, head rebuilt to Corsa spec, I thought uprating the brakes would be smart. Around then I got caught out on a night ride and found the standard Headlight pretty crappy so that was fixed. Every time I discovered an issue on a ride I didn't like I tried to make it and the bike work better. It's taken 30 years and it's just about my perfect bike. One day I might stop changing it, but probably not yet.
 
motoddrob said:
I think there is more than the frame on Red's bikes that make them competitive.
And as for modifying bikes instead of riding them I think the East coast Oz riders make that argument obsolete.
Lots of modded bikes get ridden all year around.
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Of course, nobody wanting to ride a triple competitively today would just bung tyres and shocks and forks on it because the frame would tie itself in knots.

Paul
 
As crazy as some of the fiddling some of us do is you should read some of the stuff that gets done on USA-based road and race bikes. My mouth would drop reading about Magnesium Swingarms, GP-quality Ohlins forks and Carbon Wheels for 4 Vavle Ducatis. The costs involved are way way high.
 
G'day Julian,
On my '81 Jota,
I went from the original Strata to 2nd hand Ikon and finally new YSS RZ362 built for my weight. There are a few different YSS models.
I put a set of progressive springs in the front forks with a little bit of pre-load which has worked well.
Over all I'm pretty bloody happy.
Recent trip [1400 ks, me & camping gear] the bike was a joy to ride.

Cheers Ian.
 
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I had some crap shocks on an old Bonnie and swapped to SWs, the first time I entered a petrol station and rode over the typical 30mm square-edged gutter crossing I knew it was much better. Didnt, feel that bump.
 
You most definitely do not have to be going for a personal best lap time or going like a lunatic getting your bike all out of shape on the road to appreciate good suspension. They make themselves known even riding slowly strangely enough. If people want it like it was back in the day, go for it. Isn't it Chris K who has said of various original items that it is a great idea to put them on the shelf for the eventual next owner.
 
Vince said:
I had some crap shocks on an old Bonnie and swapped to SWs, the first time I entered a petrol station and rode over the typical 30mm square-edged gutter crossing I knew it was much better. Didnt, feel that bump.
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My 3C was equipped with S&Ws when I bought it in 1986, so I've no idea whether they're any good. I replaced them with Koni Dial-A-Rides some time later, no complaints there. I still have the S&Ws in the shed, don't know if they're worth anything.

bazzee
 
My hazy memory was there were made in the USA and later were called Progresive Shocks. Non rebuildable apparently. Better than the crap I had before them.
 
S&W were top of the line back then, and were big in the dirt bike/mx market besides road stuff. I seem to recall they were a spring company (Spring & Wire - not Smith and Wesson) and got into dampers as well, American. I got some for my SF and they were pox, I found out later that the bike shop guy had sold me dampers for lightweight 250 type bikes, which I eventually swapped for correct damping and they were fantastic. After they stopped producing, some of the staff started making the same product under the new name Linko, but they closed shop after a few years.
 
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