Absolute Head Scratcher.

V

Vince

Hero member
I have a long-term issue that makes no sense. A year ago, on that Snowy Ride, my 3c made it 50 km across Sydney to the meeting point, but for the next 2 hours, while riding on the expressway, it would do a big cough and keep going. After 2 or 3 of these, it would cut out, and I would pull over. Hit the start button, and it would fire up immediately. Off I went, only for this to happen again. This would repeat 5 or 6 times, and then the bike would run fine for the next 5 hours, no problems. This happened for 3 out of the 4 days on this trip. Day 4 had me with no problems at all doing 600-plus km back home. So, thinking intermittent wiring issue, I got the local wiring bloke to completely rewire it. For various reasons, I didnt ride much in the next year. So about a week ago, I headed off on this year's Snowy Ride, and on days 1 and 2, it did that big cough thing again twice, but no stopping. I decided to head home on day 3 via some pretty remote back roads from Denilicuan. More coughing occurs, but I make it to Gundigi and book a room. So, heading home on Sunday, the engine dying is back. Apparently, the rewire didnt fix whatever this is. There is no rhyme or reason or pattern. The engine just shuts off, not fun passing trucks at 130 when this happens. So between Gundigi and Goulbanne, this happened 6 ot 7 times. The first few times I pulled the sidecovers and seat and wiggled wiring and had a look. Nothing loose. Once stopped, it would immediately restart on the button and run fine for 10 minutes till it happened again. Here is the off bit. After a while with me still rolling along at 100 to 80 kph, I would hit the button, and the bike would start with a bit of a pop. Bump starting had no effect; only the button did. And the really odd thing, after Goulburn, it stopped happening again and went fine for the 3 hours back home. Some suggestions from smarter types than me: Voltage spikes shutting off the Ingatech, replace the regulator. BTW, my built-in Volt meter reads 14.5 at 4000 and down to 12.5 at idle. Intermittent failure in either the keyed switch or the bar mounter kill switch, or insulation missing on the pick-up wiring. The rewire added 3 relays, I think one is for the keyed ignition switch, but they were not there when this first started. I guess I will be throwing parts at this till it's fixed. The problem is it's so intermittent, knowing it's fixed will be an unknown till time, and riding proves it. What really scares me is where I live, I am surrounded by long tunnels with 80kph speed limits and NO BRAKE DOWN LANES.
 
Over the years, I’ve had occasional blips from the ignition switch, still on the original one. A squirt of ACF50 in the keyhole and some repeated left right, left right with the key brings it back for the next three or five years.
Might be worth a try, Vince?
 
Happy to hear anything to fix this. Don't know what's worse, sudden stops 800ks from home on a road you haven't seen anyone else on for hours in plus 30c weather and zero shade or a tunnel with no breakdown lane. I am on my 2nd keyed switch in the 30-plus years I have owned it. I got a replacement from Lance, aka Ricky Racer, a very long time ago. The first keyed switch would kill the engine with a wiggle. I have a new keyed switch lined up.
 
That is one weird intermittent fault, Vince. You'd have to assume 'electrical' but strange stuff happens. I don't suppose you tried opening the fule cap as soon as it feels like it's going to die? But cap breather is unlikely to be that intermittent ... Voltage under power sounds fine. If there IS a connection issue in the keyed switch it will still break the contact in the relay.

I'd be tempted to bypass your ND ignition switch entirely and rig up a temp bulletproof alternative ... even a 240V light switch! You'd still have an on-off. Run power from your main fuse directly through the light switch to the main power relay. Just to see if the problem disappears. Probs like this require elimination of potential causes one-by-one.
 
I am no mechanic, and your issue could be electrical, but it could also be fuel/carb related, so possibly check the float bowls, fuel spigots, fuel lines, air filter, and inspect the tank for any crud potentially causing this random cut out. Does it idle smoothly?
 
Yes, it's either a big cough, I guess that's an off and on for 1 second or just full off, with no restart, with the wheel still rotating. One touch of the starter fires it immediately back on. All these symptoms just go away as fast as they appear. The question was asked if it loses all electrical or just ignition, and I don't know, I wish I had noticed if the blinker light in the dash still worked or even the horn, but I didnt notice. There must be a clue with zero restart happening with it rolling along at 100kph, and the engine not firing till I hit the starter button. The suggestion regarding Electrical spikes is interesting, but well over my pay grade. I thought replacing my Regulator a good while back, well before this issue, after its overcharging issue was resolved. Any spiking hasn't been noticed on my built-in Volt metre.
 
Vince, time to have the best chance of resolving the intermittent issue. That is not "seeing how it goes" on the road, its dangerous and not producing a reliable cure. There are methods for resolving intermittent electrical faults ( slow engine misoperation is fuel/carby, sudden stopping Electrical as a guide ). Need to run the ignition on the centre stand in self test, what ignition is fitted? j

**** do not shotgun this problem Vince, ( change parts until the fault seems corrected ), it is counterproductive.
 
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Ingatech John, it's been fitted for quite a few years and has been trouble-free. Dangerous is an understatement, 130 passing a truck and the engine stops, pulling behind the first truck, only to have another approaching fast. That only happened once, I made sure not to repeat it. I was shiting bricks on the heavily trafficked expressways heading home on Sunday arvo. Hope to engage with the local brains trust after the coming Bears Racing ends.
 
Same, very same symptoms when a solder joint under the ignition switch became dodgy.

When it broke away altogether shutting it down completely, it was like winning lotto, because once detected I could fix it and rest easy.
 
Ok, Vince, need the Ignitech Guru's here. Would imagine there is several test activation facilities. Nice and safe at home, invoke the ignition sparking and then in a methodical process, disturb the wiring and connections carefully. any return to battery negative wiring for the ignition harness, pull firmly on the wire as internal wire fracture is not visual, end to end and if it stretches there is an internal wire fracture. Sock mentions a worthwhile injection of ( in Oz ) CRC 2-26 into the ignition switch, and run stop switch, be generous as it is a safe chemical on plastics.

Possibly you have EMI issues, easy things first, measure HT caps ( covers ) back to engine frame with a DMM, around 15-20Kohms unless your running an exotic coil pack. On open circuit NGK cover could produce unwanted electrical interference. Your reference to "cough" is an unintended ignition pulse combined with unburnt fuel load, cylinder or exhaust or intake cycle with possible part compression

Most beneficial is a SLOW step by step process until you can invoke the fault at will, only then can you have some certainty of the actual fault, something a shotgun does not allow, as a principle. HTH j.
 
Wrote this before reading your above post, John. I had an ignition earth wire bearly hang on by a strand 50mm up under its insulation once after the battery strap snapped in a tip over. All, or at least 95% of the wiring, is all new and fitted by an old Telstra-trained Sparky who has been wiring bikes professionally for years. Phil The Wire. He does Gowys restorations. Coils are the mini ones Red sells and his Bilit mount, forget their name.
 
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Understood Vince, aware of Phil the wire over the decades, the many. Would proffer to look at the actual Ignitech harness as it would be separate from Phils work. Going out on a fast corner with hope and aspirations, knee on the ground...would be looking at intermittent 12V supply and return to battery wiring, connections and tap in point on Phils harness. Though whole live ignition self testing encompasses the whole ignition configuration.... All faults make sense, days end, said many times. "Weird" is not a diagnosis, alas. About all from me. j.
 
Yes, I expect there will be a short connection harness that Phil didnt do. Logically, I will try and separate the new bits from what existed during both events, last year's Snowy Ride and this year's. It's most likely that the problem is linked to what has been fitted during both rides. When I say ME, I mean people who are not me, who know the Green Smoke.
 
What I’d do is make a direct lead from battery to ignition system with a temporary switch, just to see if it reoccurs. I had a similar thing that drove me crazy for months and which turned out to be a now and then earthing wire in the ND kill switch housing..

Marnix
 
I have had a lot of trouble with Dirt Bike kill switches over the years, working too well. Be a good test to bypass my original one and the keyed switch to see if that removes the problem.
 
There are plenty of Iginiech controllers around for you to borrow one to eliminate that. The multi pin connector to Ignitech controllers is not exactly high tech and there have been problems with the connectors into them, a rewire would not have touched them. I had a very similar symptom on my race bike and found that the power wire connection wasn't quite right, it was found by agitating the wires and plug into the unit. I would do as suggested and hot-wire the ignition, direct to coils and Ignitech unit (if possible with that plug), eliminating kill and keyed switches from the ignition.
 
Please check the following in parallel to the wiring:
-drain Tank completely, pet-cocks out and check for rust on the filters
-check for water in the drained fuel (looks like bubles at the ground). Modern fuel binds water when humid air goes into the tank when fuel level goes down.
-take off float bowls and look for signs of water or rust
-check filters in the carbs (assuming you have dell'ortos still?!?)
-measure fuel flow from the tank in liters per minute and compare with consumption; maybe do that before you take off the ped cocks or drain the tank and measure again after doing so (and cleaning the ped-cock filters...) and compare
-check your tank can breath actually enough. This fault can be caused by a tank breather being blocked or almost blocked. With high fuel levels it starts earlier, with lower fuel level it takes longer to create according underpressure that would cause fuel starvation.
-check fues box. My brother once had the very similar fault on a 1000 SFC. It was caused by a fuse holder not being tight enough, so that the fuse could "dance" and cause intermitted cut outs. He only recognized it when finally the fuse jumped out of the holder and the bike did not even start...

Good luck!!
 
As Lothar mentioned , I would check fuse connections .......... A regular thing I would do with the CDI ignition on the Mirage , was to check that those ceramic fuses were still making good contact , and were still secure between the metal holding prongs .......
 
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Many years ago, my 1964 Bonnie was doing similar antics, that turned out to be its main in-line plastic fuse holder melting and insulting the end where the fuse contact was. The wiring bloke fitted a new 4-fuse holding box on my 3c. I checked it. All good there.
 
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