Eu U-turn on petrol cars

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EU have caved in to pressure German & French car manafacturers and have gone from an outright 2035 petrol ban to lower emissions.
Although this is for new cars it will ultimately effect petrol use in the future, meaning we can ride for longer. I would imagine the new emissions are attainable and have been suggested by the Germans/ French so I can’t see it being a problem. Motorcycles have been largely ignored by legislation but obviously the wide availability of petrol can only be a good thing for our future. UK government will almost certainly capitulate in time- what a fuck up.
 
Hopefully they will capitulate soon and banish Minibrain to a quango without a budget - he is a complete liability to UK travelling around the world telling everyone we will achieve net zero first while spending a fortune , costing jobs and increasing the cost of living - yes council houses get free air pumps new rads but not everyone has the brass for that - when they say there’s a 7k grant they leave out the bit that it could cost you 20 k 🤡
 
I doubt internal combustion will be going anywhere in our lifetimes. The infrastructure just isn't there to support widespread, practical EV use. Too many people, too few outlets, too few power generation sources. Too much freight is moving too long distances for electric to be practical unless maybe onboard nuclear reactors are supplying the juice. [Imagine those crashes!]
 
Many of us will be pushing daisies by 2035... and most of our bikes by then will be either museum displays or have been recycled to Armco railing and joghurt cups.

Conservative governments again bending the knee to Big Corp, instead of embracing progress and competing with other global players. I already hear the moaning, "only Chinese/Asian cars/bikes left on the market..." These buggers have no regard for health, safety, environment or the workforce at large, as long as their bank statements remain on a rise. Despite still offering a wide IC model range, Ford is shuttering one plant after another in Germany and Belgium, partnering with Renault to produce EVs in France. One auto-industry supplier after another is already filing for bankruptcy in Germany, once the european manufacturers are completely overtaken by the Asians they may as well all switch off their lights.

Of course I'm a little happy that fuel supply will be lengthened, but nowhere was it discussed that fossil fuels would no longer be available after 2035. Don't really understand the panic surrounding that. Only definite statement was that no new IC engines could be put into service after 2035. The auto industry can and will adapt, some jobs will fall by the wayside, but others will appear and take their places. Tyre/rubber industry is already ROFL, with so much EV torque and power to hand, tyre consumption will sky-rocket. Car sales have recuperated from the pandemic times, sales are rising in many parts of Europe. Except for Tesla maybe, their sales have seriously tanked... the Muskrat fully deserves that. Pity Norway isn't playing along, they're the only ones keeping him alive in Europe.

Seems populism is mainly panic creation. This was the main cause of the fall of the previous coalition government in Germay. Mr.Habeck/Greens announced that old, out-dated heating systems needed to be replaced... when in need of repairs, ie, old systems should no longer be repaired after a certain date. Extensive government grants were put aside to help where needed. But the papers and news were full of "Habeck wants to take our heaters, we're all going to freeze this winter!!" Another case of "too long, too lazy to read". Heating suppliers that took full advantage of the panic wave had reason to rejoice though. The then-opposition leader Merz (along with all the right-wingers) flamed Habeck and green politics every occasion he could. Now that Merz is at the helm as chancellor, one after another of Habecks' suggestions suddenly seem to be quite reasonable, simply because there are no viable alternatives. Stupid short-sighted fuckers.

piet
 
20% of new cars sold in France are electric.
Tax petrol vehicles enough and they'll die out as new transport solutions appear.
Paul
 
20% of new cars sold in France are electric.
Tax petrol vehicles enough and they'll die out as new transport solutions appear.
Paul
Already happening here, Paul.

I really should drive my old diesel Skoda into the compactor and switch to an EV. Tax on older diesel cars is astronomical, fuel tax will rise January 1st (again), while new EVs are tax-free ofr the next 5 years I think. Especially as I now generate more than enough electricity of my own...

But I simply cannot justify throwing a perfectly-working piece of mechanical equipment in the scrap while needing to shell out far too much for an EV that will meet my needs. But, for the amount needed, I can drive the old Skoda for another 10 years, easy. Just don't get to taste that "new car" smell for a while. ;)

EVs hovering around the 20% mark here as well. The surge in EV sales came to a halt as soon as government incentives ran out, I know of several people who bought an EV simply to be able to grab €5000 from the government. They obviously think that money grew on trees, only it is now missing elsewhere. Stupid short-sighted fuckers...

piet
 
I understand perfectly. I got rid of a perfectly good Citroën diesel because parts were harder to find than for a Laverda. One needs to keep the factories turning out products and the shareholders happy.
It is however impossible to contest the benefits of electric vehicles for most applications as of today.
And for the others, tomorrow.
Paul
 
I rent plenty of cars, not electric but hybrid usually. I always go cheap, Fiat Panda etc but usually get given something supposedly much better at the desk. I prefer my old diesel C2 and my Fiat Ducato to anything I have rented over the past few years. I will keep them as long as I can.
 
Go electric ? ...... I`d rather chew razor blades ...........

Actually that`s a bit of an overstatement , but I`m going to be last in the queue for one , that`s for sure .......

Massive batteries may be ok in a car , but motorcycles aren`t easily able to accommodate all that bulk , therefore have limited range .... and as far as image and self-esteem is concerned , would you want to be seen on a Super Soco ? ........ Of course you wouldn`t ..........

( The Zero SR/S is ok-ish , but still smacks of Kawasaki ER-6 , but without the good looks ........ ) ..........

Used Zero`s may be available at around £ 7-8 grand , but they will now be a few years old , so battery efficiency ( and therefore range ) will be down to 70-80% of what is was when new ...... 60 miles before you have to think about re-charging again anyone ?

Of course you can " go for a coffee " whilst your batteries re-charge to 80% in half an hour ..... ( that`ll be 80% of 80% remember ) .........

Personally I`d rather fill up with 170 miles worth of E10 , and be on my way again in 5 minutes .

So for the moment , as far as I`m concerned , it`s mostly negatives , with very few positives ...... ( sorry , couldn`t resist it ) ........ plus I`m unable to charge overnight at ohm ...... So the day I go electric is still faraday ........ ( sorry faraway ) ..... , I`m afraid ........


PS ..... All the above is purely down to personal prejudices , so may not be 100% factually correct ............ just saying ....................
 
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This thread is too political for me; wrong site.
It's solely a political issue. Economic interests influencing and overruling politics actually. Nothing new to the US having Big Corp bending the rules their way...

Really wondering how the motor industry is going to sell this oh-so-clever move to the consumer as long as buyers of new EVs recieve all the benefits. Oh, yeah, slashing those to regain a level playing field will be the next step. :rolleyes:

piet
 
Somewhere I have a photo of an EV charging station in Australia. The usual bit to plug into your car, and just behind it a big diesel generator.
 
Vietnam is beginning a massive shift to electric cars and scooters. Hanoi is banning ICE bikes in a couple of years in favor of electric. And given their government they have the ability to do so!

I think the calculation is that wind and solar are getting so cheap and batteries so powerful that they can replace most of their petroleum imports. They are rapidly building out a comprehensive charging network, e-bikes and e-scooters no longer require a license to drive.

VinFast the local carmaker only sells EVs now and they are very inexpensive. A Vespa clone E-scooter costs under $1000, gets 200kms range and goes 70kph. Perfect for the crowded cities. The VF3 car costs under $10,000 with air conditioning and is the size of a Suzuki Jimny two door.
 
Vietnam is beginning a massive shift to electric cars and scooters. Hanoi is banning ICE bikes in a couple of years in favor of electric. And given their government they have the ability to do so!

I think the calculation is that wind and solar are getting so cheap and batteries so powerful that they can replace most of their petroleum imports. They are rapidly building out a comprehensive charging network, e-bikes and e-scooters no longer require a license to drive.

VinFast the local carmaker only sells EVs now and they are very inexpensive. A Vespa clone E-scooter costs under $1000, gets 200kms range and goes 70kph. Perfect for the crowded cities. The VF3 car costs under $10,000 with air conditioning and is the size of a Suzuki Jimny two door.
That is the way possibly but I don’t hold out much hope for charging IMG_5064.jpeg
 
First of all: there was never such a thing as a bann of Combustion chamber vehicles. It was a bann of NEW vehicles that produce CO2. If you run a NEW vehicle on synthetic petrol or on hydrogen, it does not produce more CO2 than the petrol/hydrogen has stored. THAT was what the original regulation was about. Existing cars could be driven as long as you want to or the parts supply lasts.

YES, it is easier to achieve zero emission with an electric vehicle (and much, much cheaper, considering that both synthetic fuel and hydrogen cost 5 times more than conventional gas, not talking about comparing it to the energy cost for operating an electric vehicle). But it was never a "bann".

What the current change in the regulation means is that you can now have cars emitting Co2 by burning conventional fuel (or even a mix of synthetic and conventional), but with a 80% reduction over the current regulation. This is factually impossible. The car industry has tried that for decades and combustion chamber engines start to produce all kind of very toxic emissions if you go leaner or change to synthetic fuels.

Basically, the new regulation confuses customers even more, prevents clear guidelines for car manufacturers, drives them to still having to invest in parallel into two (if not three with hybrid or 4 with hydrogen) completely different, extremely complex technologies, prevent them from streamlining their production and development capacities and will cause the death of more car manufacturerers more quickly.

My 2 cents.

I highly recommend to simply change point of view for some seconds and whatch this:


I drive an EV since 4 years. i would not want to go back to be honest for a daily driver...
 
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