How do you tell a real factory built Jota?

[Haggis]

Especially funny when on a 750... "Wow, a Laverda Jota, I havent seen one in ages, they were really quick back in the day weren't they".

 

[Vince]

Is it a Jota, yes Dave I have been asked that so many times at fuel and food stops. That's if they know what a Laverda is and that is getting rarer.

 

[redax5]

I had actually designed a Jota sticker with Redax overlaid on it and ran it past Red but he wasn't keen. Maybe next time it needs paint...

I'm still trying to hide from the human race Davo, nothing has changed
My mobile phone even rang a few days ago, nearly had an accident and tripped over FFS

 

[CLEMTOG]

there is a lot written above that is wrong, wrong and still wrong, Slater built Jota's? of course some testing and trying out was done by Slaters using HC pistons and 4C cams and using their ancient Heenon and Froyd Dyno (which, to use, you had the remove the rear wheel, bolt the bike onto the machine using the swing arm spindle flanges and then install a eight foot long chain) and they gained BHP, the first ones were modified 3c's with spoked wheels and a few were indeed built by Slaters (maybe three units) the factory then supplied the bikes with what Slaters asked, execpt the exhausts, which were UK made and added on arrival in UK, these bikes were called 3CE (E for England) They were not Jota's and some had the "3CE" bit added to the chassis number on a slant between, the LAV.1000 and the first star of the production digits, apart from the metioned few they were all built by the factory, the cast wheel Jota's where all built by the factory as well, in whatever spec was appropriate for the destination country. There never was a designated production line for the Jota, you could see triples in line under way and interspaced with orange and silver ones which may have been Jotas, So you cannot have a Slater built cast wheel Jota, its very unlikley but you might as in MIGHT have a spoked wheel 3C modified by Slater's, and yes you can have a Slater [I]supplied[/I] cast wheel Jota, in the beginning you could only buy the Jota in the UK, via Slaters, and lots of new bikes were exported from UK to other countries (brand new) as dealers tried to make money, but later you could buy a Jota almost anywhere, so...........

"How do you tell a real factory built Jota?"
They almost all are!

the three Slater modified bikes excepted, and they did not have cast wheels (how many of, who knows ?) for the UK, the exhausts were always supplied by Slaters, they were inserted through slits in the polythene of the crate and themselves not wrapped in anything, that allways looked a bit vulnerable to me, (and yes I witnessed this happenning and indeed helped with it on one occassion), at Collington when shipped to retailing dealers to fit at PDI time. Elsewhere, that may be different, either stock Lanfanconis or dealer added locally made types, or even Slater supplied items.
CLEM

 

[78jotadave]

Clem thanks for the insider information, let me see if I read you right. So other than the 3 wire-spoke wheel Jota conversions that Slater Bros built all the cast wheel Slater Jotas were factory-built and simply supplied by Slaters, some with pipes, is that right? Unless you have one of those very first (3) wire-spoke wheeled Jotas the 'Slater letter' is a waste of money.

 

[Haggis]

I once had a look though the Slaters' book to find my bike. Just for fun - long ago, before 'Jota' added thousands to the price. I can remember a column which was titled 'Specification' or 'Type' and underneath was written, Jota, 1200, 3CE or whatever it was. I had the impression that the book recorded what 'came in' rather than what 'went out' certainly during the era of my bike - OSJ '79. As such, the Slater's letter basically confirms what was in the engine, when the engine was first bolted up. Not a waste of money as such - as long as having a 'proper' Jota is important to some folk and they will pay a premium for the satisfaction. I certainly had a hard on for the 'Jota' thing when I was younger. They are all just a collection of components at the end of the day. To me, now, Jota just describes an approximate specification - not a magic sprinkling of fairy dust or anthing. Mine happens to be a Jota, but I don't care much, it is, after all, just a 3C with a certain type of performance, acquired via its fitted cam and pistons.

 

[pf1]

Not really because only Slaters were selling Jotas at first and they kept their own records. I remember seeing silver Jotas in their crates stacked in their warehouse/shed without silencers fitted.

 

[Andy J]

The ‘Slater letter’ just confirms what the bike was recorded as when they sold it. Anything could have been done to it after that.
So I guess if you have changed the oil, tyres, chain and sprockets, light bulbs, seals, brake pads, piston rings, gaskets, seat cover, repainted it, bearings, cables, battery, clutch plates, etc etc it’s no longer very original so I would be surprised if there are any factory Jotas left in existence

 

[Laverdalothar]

Well - many importers asked for special models. I think Slaters were the first to use the tuning part components to offer an upraded street bike with more power and they called it "Jota", which is a spanish dance in 3/4th beat - just like a 180° Triple, which is design-wise a 4 zylinder, missing one of its inner cylinders.

Slaters made this name famous as far as my understanding goes and the factory took over that naming convention and gave the 3CL a push by naming it "Jota". I am not sure if there was an agreement with the factory that they do not deliver that tuned model to other countries, but at least the german market only saw standard engines with A/11 cams AFAIK.

Also not sure if all "Slater Jota's" (means: factory built 3CL's with Slater ordered upgrades pre-installed) were equipped the same way (higher compression, 4/C cams). So - they used to be a special model for a special market.

If people pay more for a bike that was originally sold by Slaters they need to decide. I have my opinion on that.

 

[Davo]

AFAIK the "factory" Jotas were sold into Australia at the same time as they were sold into England.

 

[twinweb]

rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy

 

[Davo]

rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy

Either can be arranged. Email for a quote

 

[CLEMTOG]

not quite!

the first bikes were experiments on the wire wheeled 3C, with changed cams, pistons, exhaust and fork yolks, by Slaters at Collington UK, these were never called Jota, very soon after, Slaters asked the factory to build this spec of bikes (for the UK only) and they were called 3CE the silencers were UK made and added, THAT'S IT!. the number of Slater converted units is unknown, I guessed at three, it might be just the one, but "racing" was involved at the time, and some one year old (and raced for that year) bikes were sold as new ones, and with new registration. The first owners never knew untill a few years ago, Same happened with 500's

The Jota name came with the cast wheels and same engine spec, (first green, then red, then silver then gold and lastly OSJ, and just the same, the silencers were UK made and added. So basically Slaters did not build Jota's at all, except they did, because in 1991 a few Jarama's were imported unsold, from Slaters USA to Slaters UK, to one degree or another varying from some stickers/badges to the full Monty, these bikes were converted by Slaters and nicknamed in the trade "Jarota so they did'nt build Jota's they converted Jarama's to Jota spec,of varying authenticity.

And then again I have probably got the whole thing wrong from start to finish.
CLEM
can it stop now?

 

[sideshow]

not quite!

the first bikes were experiments on the wire wheeled 3C, with changed cams, pistons, exhaust and fork yolks, by Slaters at Collington UK, these were never called Jota, very soon after, Slaters asked the factory to build this spec of bikes (for the UK only) and they were called 3CE the silencers were UK made and added, THAT'S IT!. the number of Slater converted units is unknown, I guessed at three, it might be just the one, but "racing" was involved at the time, and some one year old (and raced for that year) bikes were sold as new ones, and with new registration. The first owners never knew untill a few years ago, Same happened with 500's

The Jota name came with the cast wheels and same engine spec, (first green, then red, then silver then gold and lastly OSJ, and just the same, the silencers were UK made and added. So basically Slaters did not build Jota's at all, except they did, because in 1991 a few Jarama's were imported unsold, from Slaters USA to Slaters UK, to one degree or another varying from some stickers/badges to the full Monty, these bikes were converted by Slaters and nicknamed in the trade "Jarota so they did'nt build Jota's they converted Jarama's to Jota spec,of varying authenticity.

And then again I have probably got the whole thing wrong from start to finish.
CLEM
can it stop now?

We need a Wikipedia page for you Clem!

 

[Andy J]

And as we all know some of the Green/Red bikes were just 3CLs with a Jota sticker added by the owner which is why the colour was changed to silver then gold to help differentiate the models.
And yes Clem, happy to change the subject. How about a discussion on Montjuic replicas/reproductions/imitations....

 

[Alzero]

Depends what you want to tell it.

You can tell a real factory Jota, but you can’t tell it much…….

 

[1200ts]

Clem,

In the USA I would venture to guess that many of the Jota's were not built by the factory but by the dealer or customer. As a Jota could not pass emissions of noise specifications, some dealers had to make them out of a 3CL. Other dealers were able to get them from Slaters although technically they were illegal to import. I know my dealer back in the 1970's, (Rickey Racer owned by Lance Weil) would import some Jota's from Slaters but as he could not get enough of them he started building them himself. He also made some of the Jota 1200 America's which had no performance aspirations at all in to a high compression 1200 Jota.

So my original question as to how to tell if a particular Jota was built by the factory or the dealer, can't be answered. It was just curiosity if it was possible to know by the serial number. To me if it's got the cams, pistons and exhaust, it's a Jota.

 

[Andy J]

Clem,

In the USA I would venture to guess that many of the Jota's were not built by the factory but by the dealer or customer. As a Jota could not pass emissions of noise specifications, some dealers had to make them out of a 3CL. Other dealers were able to get them from Slaters although technically they were illegal to import. I know my dealer back in the 1970's, (Rickey Racer owned by Lance Weil) would import some Jota's from Slaters but as he could not get enough of them he started building them himself. He also made some of the Jota 1200 America's which had no performance aspirations at all in to a high compression 1200 Jota.

So my original question as to how to tell if a particular Jota was built by the factory or the dealer, can't be answered. It was just curiosity if it was possible to know by the serial number. To me if it's got the cams, pistons and exhaust, it's a Jota.

I think the most you could honestly say is built to Jota spec. But that’s just my opinion.

 

[Chuck3CL]

So I guess from this discussion we can never know for sure if a bike is a 'real' Jota or not.
If that is the case, it would be interesting to poll the forum and see what most would consider to be the basic or minimum features/specs necessary to establish a particular bike as worthy of the Jota classification.

 

[Davo]

Quote

So I guess from this discussion we can never know for sure if a bike is a 'real' Jota or not.
If that is the case, it would be interesting to poll the forum and see what most would consider to be the basic or minimum features/specs necessary to establish a particular bike as worthy of the Jota classification.

Or even better, if it has been touched up by the Redax shed.