loud silencers 750 SF

The db killers that were fitted to many bikes were just a short outlet piece with a smaller diameter through pipe. I made one and fitted it to the front entry to the muffler where it caught on the conti serration bits, bike was dead quiet, the noise certifier got me to take them out and it passed with just the contis.
 
Hi Bert

It sure looks like you have too much 'wool' in there. As Thomas says, if it to tightly packed, the pressure waves cannot get into the fibre pack. The pressure waves have to deflect the wool fibers, changing the gas pulse energy into kinetic energy in the fibres, which then becomes heat energy via friction and fracture - and so energy is dissipated. This is why fibre packed silencers should always be rebuildable - the fibres are designed to beak down eventually > sacrificial.

Your central pipe looks reasonably well perforated.

Take the fibres off, wrap the central perf pipe in a thin layer of stainless steel wire wool (which protects the wool fibers from direct attack through the perf holes and so increases durability), then pack the remainder with fibres at a density of ca 0.95kg/m?.

I can't tell from the photos if the wool shown is proper stuff, or just something like loft insulation.

If that still isn't quiet enough, we can look at creating an expansion volume half way along, but you will have to make baffle plates for that.

HTH,  Haggis.

Edit - I see I have repeated some of Lothar's words - sorry dude.
 
Hi Hagis,

The wool was already inside when I bought the silencers, and I bought some additional silencer wool in motorcycle speciality shop. Hope it is the right stuff. I will repack it more loose, and with a layer of steel wire wool around the central pipe. I just received a pair of DB killers and will try those too.

Making baffle plates for an expansion volume is no problem but how to make them, the details?

kind regards Bert
 
Your 'wool' could well be the right stuff, not all of it is white when new.

There are also fibre packing types that are held 'tight and together' with a special bonded coating (like a glue). This makes any volume easy to fill. Then, when the silencer gets up to temperature, the bond gives way and the fibres are able to 'pop out' to a fill the volume. Hence why I suggested to fill by weight and not volume.

Baffle design should be no problem - I (or we :-) ) can sketch them for you. You won't get huge extra noise attenuation, but we can create a small reflection chamber in the middle of your absorption silencer (There will be downsides; a bit of flow disturbance, a hot ring on the outer shell, the need to provide slipping between the hot inner pieces and the cooler shell to avoid relative thermal strain). I would certainly have a try to loosen the packing before we do that.
 
Haggis said:
... pack the remainder with fibres at a density of ca 0.95kg/m?.

Hi Haggis

To measure the density of fibre packing, you'd have to weigh the baffle before and after packing, and calculate the volume of insulation. Do you actually do that?

I'm wondering where you got that density figure from. It doesn't sound right to me, given that air is around 1.2 kg/m3.

I suspect you have the decimal point in the wrong spot. Typical glass fibre insulation material is around 12 to 50kg/m3, so 9.5kg/m3 would be plausible if it's lightly packed.
 
Oh deary me, thanks Cam, my decimal point is most certainly in the wrong place. Poor old Bert will be placing fibres into the silencer one by one with tweezers!  :D

Do I worry about silencer volume - yes, in my day job. Sadly.

Anyway, let's riff a bit more for the fun of it...

The problem with these long-round-thin mufflers is that they actually provide very little silencing volume for manipulating pressure pulses and cannot provide high degrees of transfer loss without putting the gas flow itself though excessive agonies and so creating back pressure. Any damping method will be a compromise within such a shape. Reverse flow, absorption, reflective, disruptive, whatever. Internal chambers can only be small and so only effective over a small frequency range.  So we are kinda stuck with small improvements. If the same volume was shorter and fatter it would be more useful, but still not enough.

With a crossover in front we greatly increase the silencer volume available to each pressure pulse, as the ?other? silencer gets to share some of the effort in calming things down.

The tapered lead-in at the front of the silencer is also a lost opportunity - a sudden increase in diameter usefully takes out quite a bit of energy.

So, back to Bert?s problem with noise and his mods. I think Bert will have about 1.65 litres silencing vol per cylinder, less than half what is required to do a decent job. So if we move over to litres (rather than M? which is far too big for our case and causes dimwits to lose sight of where the decimal point should be  ::) ), I would recommend a lower limit for wool packing in the region of 160g per silencer. It depends on the wool Bert has to hand of course, its fibre diameter and even its strand length (which helps hold it in place structurally). So Bert, weigh out the fibre on the kitchen scales, expand it with your fingers and pop it in and have a look at whether that much can fill the volume decently enough. If not, add some more until the volume is loose (not flopping about) but full. The main reason I am going on about wool weight is not that it is an absolute, but that it will give you a benchmark for any packing changes you do next.

Hag
 
also, I recomend measuring the noise. Your ear can be very subjective...

there are several mobile apps that are OK enough to use to measure differences between original and modified. Just make sure the point WHERE you put the phone during measuring is always the 100% same...
 
I just got this stuff - arrived in the post today - Ballards 128x45cm Jumbo Muffler Packing Mat. AU$30.

Also weighed up getting 1m of stainless flywire for $40 or 10m for $80 - went with the big roll! Now I have everything for the innards of the mufflers. Big cans too - 93mm OD at the fat end of the mega and 45mm at the inlet, 350mm effective length for the perf tapered tube inside it, into 260mm x 93mm canister with tapered perf innards, 54mm at the open end.
 
:D I have just realized, we are all missing out on a most bountiful source of packing material. All we need is to capture a President, shear him on a regular basis and we are in the money. Here is an example, pre-formed with a bonding agent, just like the donations we could get from the coiffured prez himself.
50170440417_a076665c38_o.jpg
 
Haggis said:
:D I have just realized, we are all missing out on a most bountiful source of packing material. All we need is to capture a President, shear him on a regular basis and we are in the money. Here is an example, pre-formed with a bonding agent, just like the donations we could get from the coiffured prez himself.
50170440417_a076665c38_o.jpg

American-type joke?
 
Thomas aus LAU said:
It looks as if there is also foil wrapped around.

At most, this can be used outside as a closure for easier insertion.
Otherwise the wool must be "open" so that the sound pressure can penetrate through the holes in the wool so that sound energy is destroyed there.
The wool must also not be wrapped/pressed too tightly.

Best Thomas aus LAU

Haggis:The tapered lead-in at the front of the silencer is also a lost opportunity - a sudden increase in diameter usefully takes out quite a bit of energy.



Hi Lothar and Haggis

It took a while before I could find the time.

Haggis, I perforated the plate at the front of the silencer with 1 cm large holes, as to take advantage of the tapered lead-in; hopefully it will take out some of the energy. Will fill the exhausts more loosely with wool, especially at the front of the silencer.

Thomas, the holes are only 3.5 mm with a distance of 7.5 mm from the centres of the holes in each direction. That means that about 20% of the perforated pipe is composed of holes. Don't think this is enough.

Drilling the holes would give:
holes of 5 mm, 40%, distance between the holes 2.5 mm
holes of 5.5 mm, 49%, distance 2 mm
holes of 6 mm, 58%, distance 1.5 mm
holes of 6.5 mm, 68%, distance 1 mm
holes of 7.5 mm, 100%, no distance, no pipe ::)

suggestions?
 
Thread tidied up and irrelevant political comment removed after complaint.

Seasons greetings to all

 
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