Mirage TS Sticking clutch plates

its the oil TYPE/BRAND
no one seems to know which ones to avoid, but I can tell you that I am currently using cheapo Silkolene or Fuschs, and sticking is minimal, the starter frees it before she fires
with bike in first gear, ignition on, clutch in, choke on, stab starter, a moments hesitation (no need for barakes) and the motor is spinning and the clutch freed+ no crunch as box already in first.

It was at one time normal practice on British bikes to pull in the clutch, while in neutral, and prod the kickstart a few times, it turns the engine through the clutch (usually) and the resistance of the motor would unstick the plates.
CLEM
 
Start with a light solution: Start the engine, pull the clutch and hold it. You probable don't hear a différence in noise. Then give the throttle some light blibs, like 2000 rpm while you still have the clutch engaged. If the sound changes then you can engage first gear.
 
Beucars said:
Start with a light solution: Start the engine, pull the clutch and hold it. You probable don't hear a différence in noise. Then give the throttle some light blibs, like 2000 rpm while you still have the clutch engaged. If the sound changes then you can engage first gear.
Click to expand...
You should try my Falcone.
Start it, warm it up whilst pulling in the clutch, crunch it into first, then it will advance with the clutch pulled in for the first 2km before it free's up. Can of course be held on the brake.
Problem disappears when you rinse the dry clutch in parafin or the like, standard practice, but reappears after a few hundred km.

Laverda clutches often stick like hell when the bike is layed up.

Paul
 
My 73 c3 has a sticky clutch after sitting for about a week and all i do is put in second gear pull the clutch in and rock it backwards till it frees up.Might take a little while but works every time over the last 30 years.
 
MonkeyTS said:
Hi Clem,

Sounds like mine is a series 1 TS ? number 2988. You mention it's a very easy thing to do, if it's a Mk1. Do I need any specific tools to undertake? As I think I'm going to have a go. Seems the value would be much lower, if it's not sorted. Also Is there anything specific I need to be aware of, must do or not do? Before I remove the Primary case.

Cheers 👍🏻

Richard
Click to expand...
Hi MonkeyTS, a method I have used before with some success is to start the bike on a downhill stretch of road. Get it warmed up nicely while it’s stationary - feel the crankcase to make sure the gearbox is nice and warm. With the engine still running, release the brakes and let it run down the hill. As it starts rolling hoik the clutch in and hold it in, first or second should now be selected. Keep holding the clutch in, apply the brakes gently and a combination of heat, engine load and vibration should break the clutch free. If it doesn’t work, you havent lost anything…. Maybe even try again!

Good luck!
 
MonkeyTS said:
Hi Clem,

Sounds like mine is a series 1 TS ? number 2988. You mention it's a very easy thing to do, if it's a Mk1. Do I need any specific tools to undertake? As I think I'm going to have a go. Seems the value would be much lower, if it's not sorted. Also Is there anything specific I need to be aware of, must do or not do? Before I remove the Primary case.

Cheers 👍🏻

Richard
Click to expand...
Hi Richard

there are a few "tricks". Getting the crankshaft nut off can be a right prick if you do not have an impact gun. What the manual does not tell you is that you don't have to take the crank nut off at all.

to take the primary cover off, back off the primary chain tensioner (lock nut and adjuster sticking out of bottom of the primary cover) to take any tension off the primary chain.

then remove all the primary cover fasteners, and if it is stuck, whack it with a rubber hammer in several places. It will pop free. Resist the urge to stick a screwdriver or pry bar between the primary cover and the engine case or you can bugger the sealing edge.

with the cover off, ignore the crank nut. You will see the primary chain and the gear on the clutch cover. if the motor is early, move on to next step. If motor is later it will have a support with bearing over the clutch, just remove the three bolts and set it aside. Unbolt the half dozen bolts holding the gear on the rubber isolators, and you can wiggle the gear off the clutch complete with chain. Then you will need a pair of circlip pliers to unsnap the circlip holding the clutch cover itself off. It just pulls straight off, although inside it has a whole bunch of fine splines that the clutch plates may be stuck to. Again, use a rubber hammer to persuade it loose. That's it for disassembly. A brand new clutch set of steels and fiber plates is relatively inexpensive and highly recommended. Soak the new fiber plates in oil for an hour or more before reinstallation.

then the only "trick" on re assembly is getting the new clutch plate teeth lined up with the internal splines in the cover. I use a steel straight edge to force all the teeth into alignment with each other, then gently persuade the cover on with light taps of a mallet. If you meet resistance, don't use force, pull the cover back off and re align the teeth again using your straight edge..

the other issue you may run into is the little "anti rattle" springs on the innermost clutch plates if still fitted. I don't even attempt to refit the anti rattle springs, perfectly fine to leave them off unless you have access to the "special tool" which I don't.

any issues, just ask.

Others here may have different fitment advice, please feel free to jump in.......

Bike will be much easier to sell if it can be test ridden, or at least confirmed by video to run and shift etc.. After sitting for so long, would be a great idea to change the oil, and flush and bleed the brake and clutch fluid, maybe a new battery......while you are at it. Then new tires, then you might as well keep it and ride it........;)

Paul LeClair
 
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Paul LeClair said:
Hi Richard

there are a few "tricks". Getting the crankshaft nut off can be a right prick if you do not have an impact gun. What the manual does not tell you is that you don't have to take the crank nut off at all.

to take the primary cover off, back off the primary chain tensioner (lock nut and adjuster sticking out of bottom of the primary cover) to take any tension off the primary chain.

then remove all the primary cover fasteners, and if it is stuck, whack it with a rubber hammer in several places. It will pop free. Resist the urge to stick a screwdriver or pry bar between the primary cover and the engine case or you can bugger the sealing edge.

with the cover off, ignore the crank nut. You will see the primary chain and the gear on the clutch cover. if the motor is early, move on to next step. If motor is later it will have a support with bearing over the clutch, just remove the three bolts and set it aside. Unbolt the half dozen bolts holding the gear on the rubber isolators, and you can wiggle the gear off the clutch complete with chain. Then you will need a pair of circlip pliers to unsnap the circlip holding the clutch cover itself off. It just pulls straight off, although inside it has a whole bunch of fine splines that the clutch plates may be stuck to. Again, use a rubber hammer to persuade it loose. That's it for disassembly. A brand new clutch set of steels and fiber plates is relatively inexpensive and highly recommended. Soak the new fiber plates in oil for an hour or more before reinstallation.

then the only "trick" on re assembly is getting the new clutch plate teeth lined up with the internal splines in the cover. I use a steel straight edge to force all the teeth into alignment with each other, then gently persuade the cover on with light taps of a mallet. If you meet resistance, don't use force, pull the cover back off and re align the teeth again using your straight edge..

the other issue you may run into is the little "anti rattle" springs on the innermost clutch plates if still fitted. I don't even attempt to refit the anti rattle springs, perfectly fine to leave them off unless you have access to the "special tool" which I don't.

any issues, just ask.

Others here may have different fitment advice, please feel free to jump in.......

Bike will be much easier to sell if it can be test ridden, or at least confirmed by video to run and shift etc.. After sitting for so long, would be a great idea to change the oil, and flush and bleed the brake and clutch fluid, maybe a new battery......while you are at it. Then new tires, then you might as well keep it and ride it........;)

Paul LeClair
Click to expand...
Is the clutch sprocket bolted on rather than rivetted on that machine?
Paul
 
if the cush drive rubbers are still showing rivets, then this method does not work, if they have been removed and replaced with bolts then do as PLC says, removing the crank jesus nut is not hard i fyou have the locking tool and socket (avaialble on loan through ILOC) but remeber to throughly clean the male and female threads with a spirit, Locktite the thread, use a new locktab, available from me or Toddy, and tighten the thing up almost t the pint of stripping, or in technical terms BFBT.
CLEM
 
thanks for the follow ups..... If the clutch rubbers are still riveted, I still think it would be easier to drill and thread for bolts rather than deal with the crank "jesus" nut if no access to an air impact. However, as I do not have access in western Canada to the UK ILOC tool lending program, I forgot you lucky fellows who can borrow the factory tools including the crank nut removal stuff.....

I also made the assumption that this is an earlier TS so no ignition to deal with in the primary cover

just trying to give a very plain English description for what this admitted novice mechanic, likely with limited tools, can expect.

I am also wondering if any of the UK members who might be close to him might have mercy onb him and drop by to lend a helping hand. For anyone who has done a Laverda clutch before this is a simple quick process, I replaced the clutch in my RGS last year in under an hour start to finish... and if I can do it anyone can, likely better and quicker:rolleyes::eek::D
 
Paul LeClair said:
thanks for the follow ups..... If the clutch rubbers are still riveted, I still think it would be easier to drill and thread for bolts rather than deal with the crank "jesus" nut if no access to an air impact. However, as I do not have access in western Canada to the UK ILOC tool lending program, I forgot you lucky fellows who can borrow the factory tools including the crank nut removal stuff.....

I also made the assumption that this is an earlier TS so no ignition to deal with in the primary cover

just trying to give a very plain English description for what this admitted novice mechanic, likely with limited tools, can expect.

I am also wondering if any of the UK members who might be close to him might have mercy onb him and drop by to lend a helping hand. For anyone who has done a Laverda clutch before this is a simple quick process, I replaced the clutch in my RGS last year in under an hour start to finish... and if I can do it anyone can, likely better and quicker:rolleyes::eek::D
Click to expand...
I once rode an SFC 1000 I'd just purchased near Gothenburg to South West London with a totally inoperable clutch . Well it was OK for the first 100 miles and then the crap in the hydraulic reservoir stirred up by fitting a RAM sat nav mount on the clutch lever perch before departure blocked the return port in the master cylinder , so no clutch , or rather no disengaging the clutch . I only worked this out once home otherwise it would have been an easy fix !
I found you could literally paddle the bike away from stoplights and clunk it into first gear at walking pace and it would chug away without stalling! Kept my hand near the kill switch for any emergency stops and got through Sweden, Denmark , Germany , Holland , South East England and 3 ferries like this , though a tail back on the Dutch motorway was a bit hair raising .
I've also just recommissioned a mate's Ducati Darmah which had badly stuck its clutch plates . It needed a bit more than walking pace or it stalled , but didn't need the brakes touching to free off , just accelerate hard with clutch lever in when safe to do and it soon released its death grip .
To the original poster , if you're in South Cheshire I'll gladly pop up from Shropshire and help with procedure described above . Otherwise I have an electric rattle gun I'll loan you if you want to meet half way ? If I recall correctly this worked fine on the last Jesus nut but my memory is shit and it was ages ago , others can comment if it needs a kosher compressor powered one ?
Dave
 
I'd forgotten how difficult it can be to get those splines aligned and the clutch drum in place. I ended up making two spacers in alu to fit in place of the springs, cut to a length that allowed the drum to fit over all the plates. By applying gentle pressure with the bolts it allowed me to juggle the plates into alignment and made tapping the drum on a lot easier. Once it slid on and off OK I fitted four springs and bolts and removed the spacers and fitted the last two springs. Ideally I'd use soft springs in place of the solid spacers but didn't have any to hand.

Anyone know how the factory would have fitted these? Other questions: Green book says friction plates should measure 3.6mm; mine are brand new (bought decades ago from Jim Eades when they were Oz importers) and they measure 4mm. Anyone encountered this? Are Red's kevlar plates wider than 3.6mm? And I have an assortment of pushrods - what is the correct length for an SF motor? I plan to use ones that are 112mm apporx.

Multiplied by the number of plates that means my clutch pushrod assembly will effectively be around 4mm 'too short'. I'll have to wait until I fit the outer cover before I know if the actuating lever angle is too acute.
 
FWIW, i use a triangle hand file to align the teeth, of the external perimeter teeth, with moderate pressure on the spring/retaining fasteners. Do always remove a rivited cush drive cover and modify to fastener upgrade, new rubbers if originals are too hard. Gentle upward hand pressure lower section while on the triangle "tool" forming teeth to approximate the centering. Slow as you go, sense of "before i could not spell mechanic now i are one".... the final tap and the outer clutch goes into place. Remove cover and tighten the M6 spring fasteners. Or pull the clutch in to see if all is normal and drop the aligned clutch plates, yes fess up to that "good idea", no problem...start all over again... the Yoga of Laverda care... Ommmmmm as you go helps .... calm calm calm... think then act....grin j.
 
I found that even with slight pressure from two bolts and springs the bolts were protruding far enough out that the last 2 or 3 plates wouldn't be engaging with the splines. Thus I quickly made the the solid tubes 40mm long and used them with VERY slight pressure.

Still reckon my 112mm pushrods plus 1/4" ball will be too short for the seven 4mm plates c/w the green book's 3.5mm per plate. Anyone know the best way to source a longer pushrod if/when i need it?
 
piranha-bro2 said:
Anyone know the best way to source a longer pushrod if/when i need it?
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Make it to suit. I've used 6mm 'silver' steel and hardened the ends. Don't use 1/4" rod unless you're feeling lucky. Don't use stainless.
The distance it protrudes the output shaft is the dimension that needs to be maintained. Has been discussed several times over the years. The search function is your friend. Hydraulic or cable actuation can vary a bit?
 
Thanks Mark. I'll do some research. Vince mentioned using silver steel (unhardened) and it lasted about a minute, so I'd need to be sure I got the hardening right.
 
It was more than a minute, it was years ago but from memory, it lasted maybe an hour. Every mm is critical to the geometry of the actuator. I used stainless as I could buy it easily, way too soft. It muttered the end slowing gaining Freeplay till it didn't work. I had just had Eades replace my clutch plates and my homemade clutch lever extension was hitting the outer case so I needed to change the outer rod length to get it to function. Big point loads on these rods.
 
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