My twins do the same, too much choke and the plug goes in the bin.
Paul
NGK B8ES
- Thread starter iis_iis
- Start date
Paul
Andy J
Hero member
- Location
- Isle of Man
I fear a marketing ploy. Tell people you’re going to stop making something and sales rocket. It’s happened recently with Caramac bars.
I know that is wishful thinking, so is this issue also affecting supply of plugs for the 500 twins Or just the larger plugs for triples/750 Twins?
I know that is wishful thinking, so is this issue also affecting supply of plugs for the 500 twins Or just the larger plugs for triples/750 Twins?
Inadequate ceramic isolator quality/surface? Apparently once the surface of the "bad" plug becomes conductive, it cannot be cleaned properly and the spark continues taking the easier path to ground.
It must be remembered that the plug manufacturers generally serve the wide front of modern vehicles. "Back in the day", I must have sold around 100000, mostly NGK, sparkplugs through my shop, without a single complaint. Maybe modern engines with their exact fuelling can get away with a lower quality plug without constant fouling. The hit-or-miss fuelling of our clunkers seems to stress the plugs a lot more, thus causing failure upon failure. I seriously doubt the plug manufacturers would bother to make a range of plugs just to suit carburetted engines.
I was once lucky to find a larger batch of NOS Champions that were at least 20 years old, never had an issue with them. Newly manufactured Champions are by far not as reliable, they often show the same sort of fickleness of the NGKs. I've resorted to using Denso plugs in my Matchless thumper, a more inadequate fuelling system cannot be imagined. From flooding upon start to running hot and pinking with too much ignition retard when I forget to adjust accordingly, the plug copes well with all I throw at it.
piet
It must be remembered that the plug manufacturers generally serve the wide front of modern vehicles. "Back in the day", I must have sold around 100000, mostly NGK, sparkplugs through my shop, without a single complaint. Maybe modern engines with their exact fuelling can get away with a lower quality plug without constant fouling. The hit-or-miss fuelling of our clunkers seems to stress the plugs a lot more, thus causing failure upon failure. I seriously doubt the plug manufacturers would bother to make a range of plugs just to suit carburetted engines.
I was once lucky to find a larger batch of NOS Champions that were at least 20 years old, never had an issue with them. Newly manufactured Champions are by far not as reliable, they often show the same sort of fickleness of the NGKs. I've resorted to using Denso plugs in my Matchless thumper, a more inadequate fuelling system cannot be imagined. From flooding upon start to running hot and pinking with too much ignition retard when I forget to adjust accordingly, the plug copes well with all I throw at it.
piet
Probably the kiss of death, but havent fouled a plug on my Jota in many years. Used to 20 odd years ago when running a worn out engine, carbs and original ignition. I really dont think the problem was the plugs...and its 8s for me...
piranha-bro2
Hero member
- Location
- Melbourne
The problem was never the plugs, Nick. Definitely a design flaw or weak componentry - as a few of us have said, NEVER fouled a plug on Laverda twins.
Back in 1999 I bought a 1975 and had it shipped to Nova Scotia (wish I still had it - went to help finance an Auatin-Healey I do still own). Wolfgang had given it a going over which included a new electronic ignition and new NGK spark plugs. When i tried to start it, it ran for maybe 10 seconds, then died. Noting. Grounded a plug against the head - no spark. I figured the ignition was at fault. Wolfgang sent a replacement. Still nothing. The seller had included what had come off the bike, including the old plugs Champions. I replaced one plug, bike fired on one cylinder. Replaced a second, it ran on Two. Replaced the third and everything was fine. Three brand new plugs failed, all at the same time. Go figure. I vowed never to buy NGKs. The bike ran fine on the old Champions - and the new ones that replaced them.
Exmoor beast
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- Minehead,Somerset, ENGLAND OF COURSE
We had one in the workshop, used to clean two stroke plugs on first service (500miles) then wire brush the threads to get the grit off..happy days!I have a very hazy memory of the local Petrol Station having a Plug-cleaning machine when I was a kid, it sand-blasted them. Probably 50 years ago. or a bit more. It was a Champion machine in an Ampol Gararge in Gladsville near my Gand parent's home.
Vintage Champion Spark Plug Tester Cleaner Service Oil Gas Station | eBay
Untested, no stands. This item is sold as is. See photos for condition.www.ebay.com
Some of this reads like the "Battery" died, the battery is at fault, never buy that battery again.... oh the replacement battery died also, maybe the problem is elsewhere....sic. Plugs, hell of an environment, Piet has a good perspective, though it is a little more to observed outcomes. Pure carbon does not conduct electricity all that well, graphite does. The fluffies on the plug threaded body is the lowest temperature part of the combustion chamber. Biscuit brown nose is sign of an overall managed best setup of ignition and fuel/air cylinder load. Managed being the key word.
Seen on my test jig, the surface tracking of ionic current travelling like a snake, down the nose of a contaminated plug. Not even close to bridging the outer electrode to the inner electrode, gap.
Correct operating temperature of the plug is important, if your fuelling is not optimum ( difficult across cold crank starts to redline/loaded ) and you are mucking about with imagined ignition curve profile, then your optimal plug operating environment is any thing but. Quick. blame the plug.... deary me. Mind you i did have a hard time with brand new Bosch W22 ( check the part number, use them for reference to show customers how a bad plug behaves ) on a fresh ignition installation, iis. Nightmare would be more the call. j
Seen on my test jig, the surface tracking of ionic current travelling like a snake, down the nose of a contaminated plug. Not even close to bridging the outer electrode to the inner electrode, gap.
Correct operating temperature of the plug is important, if your fuelling is not optimum ( difficult across cold crank starts to redline/loaded ) and you are mucking about with imagined ignition curve profile, then your optimal plug operating environment is any thing but. Quick. blame the plug.... deary me. Mind you i did have a hard time with brand new Bosch W22 ( check the part number, use them for reference to show customers how a bad plug behaves ) on a fresh ignition installation, iis. Nightmare would be more the call. j
Exmoor beast
Hero member
- Location
- Minehead,Somerset, ENGLAND OF COURSE
So apart from fouling up you’ve never had a problem!
Andy
Hero member
- Location
- Auckland, roughly
I was told that some fakes could break up with bits of plug and porcelain bouncing around. Could have been just talk, but having seen the effect of poor QC on other products out of several factories, or rejects being relabeled and sold, as a non-expert I keep myself well away...
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The "fakes" that came to my attention, were not fakes, rather "re-manufactured" genuine NGK, ie cleaned and put in a copy or new box each plug, that was many years ago.
With plugs out here approaching $10 each, there is the potential for "genuine fake", ....there is something to get the mind around in modern terminologies, j
With plugs out here approaching $10 each, there is the potential for "genuine fake", ....there is something to get the mind around in modern terminologies, j
Andy J
Hero member
- Location
- Isle of Man
I’ve used NGK on virtually every type of bike I’ve owned and rarely had a problem, so their loss to the market is a loss IMHO.
not long ago I bought a box of Champion spark plugs for my 750 Zanes, as they were OE fitment. I had a 20% failure rate so I agree with the comment about modern Champs.
not long ago I bought a box of Champion spark plugs for my 750 Zanes, as they were OE fitment. I had a 20% failure rate so I agree with the comment about modern Champs.
Ian D
Hero member
- Location
- South Australia
Mmmm, NGK made resistor and non resistor spark plugs and caps. That is 4 products and they are dropping 2.
Its unfortunate, and I did buy new resistor caps at the time for fitting later, and have done the same with spark plugs.
I would think that the bean counters have been at it.
But when the time comes I will fit non resistor caps and resistor plugs, and hopefully get the same result.
I would think that that would be a viable alternative.
After a quick google search found this.
Ignition and sensor specialist NGK Spark Plugs (U.S.A.) Inc. has announced that effective April 1, 2023,
the company name will become Niterra North America, Inc.
Company restructure??
Its unfortunate, and I did buy new resistor caps at the time for fitting later, and have done the same with spark plugs.
I would think that the bean counters have been at it.
But when the time comes I will fit non resistor caps and resistor plugs, and hopefully get the same result.
I would think that that would be a viable alternative.
After a quick google search found this.
Ignition and sensor specialist NGK Spark Plugs (U.S.A.) Inc. has announced that effective April 1, 2023,
the company name will become Niterra North America, Inc.
Company restructure??
I had a sticking starter enrichment plunger and it wet a plug, on a couple of occasions, before I resolved the problem.
My point being: it didn't kill a Champion plug.
piranha-bro2
Hero member
- Location
- Melbourne
Be grateful the failing plug communicated you had a problem?
For what it's worth, I have moved away from NGK's as they tended to misfire once they got wet with too much choke. They also shit the bed at times when reving beyond 7k. For the last 5 years I am using Denso spark plugs (see Piet's comment on the Denso types). They are in the same prices range as the NGKs but appear to be a lot more robust. No more misfiring.
Cheers,
Alex
Cheers,
Alex
mmmmm pretty much never had to rev a 180 series 1 out to upper atmosphere rpm, dont recall ever hitting the 8250rpm limiter on my 4 180's over decades, 120 very different, wacking the rev limiter is common enough. Acknowledge your Denso outcomes with interest all the same Alex.