The new 4 valve cylinder head for Laverda triples is now available

Status
Not open for further replies.
SimonR501 said:
The good news is that I already have a 4-valve per cylinder 120deg 1000cc engine with fuel injection.
I have to report that it has great torque, is very smooth and economical, extremely reliable and revs great! I love it and might buy another!

Oh alright, it's under the bonnet of my Toyota Aygo!!!!!
Click to expand...
4 valve DOHC triple, massive horsepower and torque and reliability, Triumph has been building them for 30 years, just saying.

Gijs is an amazing achievement and I wish him nothing but success I will certainly get in line to buy a kit or complete bike but I will have to win the lottery first.

The ApriliaLaverda was a joke Badge engineering at its worst when did Laverda ever have a v-twin connection?
 
78jotadave said:
4 valve DOHC triple, massive horsepower and torque and reliability, Triumph has been building them for 30 years, just saying.

Gijs is an amazing achievement and I wish him nothing but success I will certainly get in line to buy a kit or complete bike but I will have to win the lottery first.

The ApriliaLaverda was a joke Badge engineering at its worst when did Laverda ever have a v-twin connection?
Click to expand...

Laverda only had a single connection. Look at the mess they got into when they made other engine configurations.

Paul
 
  I emailed for pricing as I'm curious and got a comprehensive breakdown of the four kits, however I'm struggling with the posting a PDF  ((well anything really pic wise ) '  My brief post doesn't do justice to the completeness of the package. Apologies.

Head complete with valve cover cams etc ready to bolt on.
4,822 Euro
Pistons with nikasiled cylinders ( exchange)  1570
Fuel injection hardware    1528
Fuel injection electronics  , Ecu , sensors , loom..1800  euros, 

 
I thought so 10 grands roughly. I think it is reasonable for a lot of special stuff and very small series. Hope some of you will decide to order and try. Maybe there are just some engines which need refirbishment...
 
I've been following the development of this closely, discussed this and that with Gijs a few times.  The sheer volume of effort and  level of workmanship are extremely impressive.  Personally, I wouldn't bother with FI, even if it means sacrificing 15-20 ponies.  Reckon the advantage the kit would offer in carb form is more than enough to have a bag of fun on the road, even with a "stock" chassis.  Just not sure if I want to upgrade my 3C toy, which is already a right beast,  or turn the RGS into a real sleeper.  Both options are very tempting, but only one is possible.  Gotta have a long talk with Gijs...

piet
 
Piranha Brother 2 said:
I wonder whether you've been following this, Red?!  :o  And tossing a few ideas around in your head .... hmmm, the mule with all hard work done already ... with a nice little 4-valve head ... in the Scorch frame ... prime candidate!!
Click to expand...
Red had to go back to hospital last week with an infection. Hopefully he's out again and I am certain he will read this. Interesting to hear his thoughts. Cheers
Ian
 
I spent a lot of time in Gimili Manitoba.
I'm sure Jim has too !

I was never a licensed pilot, just give me a J3 on floats and forget I'm a Traffic Controller , Initials RGD in the UCOR exasperating rules. Real Good Dispatcher - Hard to kill yourself in a Piper J3 which we called Skeeters  - Jim you know damn well what I talking about.

Shit I'm still alive ;o)

Give me a Breganzie or Piper J3 and I'll be gone - Need a push from the Bar Maid - No exclusion ;o)

For all you guys know about a Piper J3 Skeeter is that she has a 60/80Hp engine on the front end of a 18ft canoe with wings and she fly's!

Good luck to get much more then 4000ft of altitude with her. Fortunately or unfortunately I ended being a dispatcher rather being a fly boy ;o)
 
While the effort really is impressive, I would want to see results of field testing for thousands of miles in various conditions; heat soak and lubrication issues would be my concerns, especially as more power always comes with more stress and *heat,* and this would be way more than the block and cylinders were designed for. How's the thing gonna do in a 10-mile cross-city stop-and-go drive in summer heat?

it warrants remembering that the history of air-cooled 4-valvers is spotty. Some of the best engineers in the world - from BMW and famously Porsche - passed on it as additions to existing engines due to oiling and cooling problems, and even the big-dollar Krauser heads available for air-cooled BMWs in the late 1970s were dodgy. Porsche passed on the concept, and used water-cooled heads on 4V air-cooled race engines. Moto Guzzi had a helluva time in finding cylinder head materials able to cope with the heat when designing the Daytona, and even the later 8V 1200cc engines have had their fair share of troubles. And Guzzi's 4V Lario - 4V heads tacked on to an existing design - was an abysmal failure; they exploded. Both these outfits had way more resources available to them than one small, private, team. In Porsche's case fantastically much more. My worry would be spending $10K on a full installation only to have opened a Pandora's box of perpetual fiddling and problems.

Are there any Dynojet runs to show?

- Kristian
 
julian said:
Would be fun to have an absolutely stock looking Jota or 3c at a track day hogged out to "big" and fitted with the 4 valve head etc (but on carbs of course) and upset the modern boys What a laugh that would be!
Click to expand...

With equal riders, that would still never happen. A newish R6 would still leave you for dead around a track, and you'd never see which way an R1 went.

Kristian
 
Main cargo was most likely a 45 Gal drum of gasoline delivered to the middle of no where - Basically I was a flying Bomb !

Hey Jim that happened before I became a Traffic Controller ;o)
 
ksoholm said:
With equal riders, that would still never happen. A newish R6 would still leave you for dead around a track, and you'd never see which way an R1 went.

Kristian
Click to expand...

This is a project done by very serious, experienced and enthusiastic people, who do this for one single reason... well.. for the heck of it, nothing more.

Not being done to dominate classic endurance as Gijs knows the rules all too well, but if there?s an opportunity to race it then he probably will!

If it excites you and you like the adventure then it would make a fantastic project. If you want guarantees, buy something else.

Marnix
 
JIM: One thing that really got me in studying the UCOR (Unicode of Operating Rules) was that most my older peers where Pilots flying Cessna 185's on floats.

I was never a licensed pilot but did my thing - My Nephew fly's Turbo Caravans to James Bay outta White River.

My Family is rather a family of Bush Flyers. Dangerous Business !
 
I haven't followed the links so I'm flying blind. But the big problem with air cooled 4V heads is heat rejection.
I'm sure the people involved have studied what has gone before and hopefully learnt from that...

All the Jap factories except Kawasaki did air cooled 4V engines before changing to liquid cooling.
Most rapidly developed histories of cracking in use. Usually from the ex valve seats to the plug hole.
I'm still seeing it today as a number of these engines are in use in post classic racing here.

I would hope - and surmise - that oil circulation rates have been increased and that this can be used as another path for heat rejection.

But, well done to the guys anyway.  And can I suggest that BEARS is probably the most appropriate class to try it in....
 
Tippie said:
"However, If Gijs has decided to make it all then I am fairly sure he has a plan of somewhere to race it, maybe in the EELC or elsewhere,  For instance in the IOM the classics are open to the organizers interpretation of their own rules and they allow what they like in order to make a good meeting, I think this is a good idea when there are never enough classic bikes out there anyway. "
They are going the other way here, trying to take the racing out of classic and make it a fucking parade class. The new rule introduced - with mass disbelief from just about all the Norwegians I know who race other than the modern classic classes- by the organising committee for nordic classic is from this year if the engine and frame did not leave the factory together they are not allowed. So all the things people did back in the day like Norvins, Tribsas and all the rest are banned. No mention of special frames like all the Rob North and Seeleys. They are chasing all the competitors away. Who votes in these representatives that work against us? It sounds like politics. Soon it will be just CBRs and GSXRs etc. Spit spit.
Click to expand...
Extract from Classic TT supplementary regulations:
MACHINE ELIGIBILITY
? The Organisers may accept a machine not complying with these Supplementary regulations if:
i. in the opinion of the Promoters it would enhance the spectacle of the racing, and
ii. in the opinion of the Organiser that any dispensation given would not give a competitor an unfair performance advantage.
Therefore, Julian and Tippie are correct it could well be eligible for the Classic TT.
It would also presumably be eligible to race in other four stroke race classes that weren?t governed by strict Classic racing rules.
 
Basically if you go for Hemi 4 Valve DOHC you require Fuel Injection with strong bottom end.

I like Lamba EFI Constant Flow Systems however I would love to run a mechanical Falkner FI pump say with Hilborn Injectors and FUCK the ECM electronics and use a magneto for a race bike - You don't need a battery or an alternator or starter just push it.

I'm Old School and Love Bar Maids ;o)
 
" A newish R6 would still leave you for dead around a track, and you'd never see which way an R1 went."
Very few riders are actually faster on thousands than they were on 600s these days anyway.
If that was all that counted none of us would be stuffing around with Laverdas in the first place. There are plenty of Lav owners with lots of money in their buckets and even fewer who ride them anywhere close to near their limits, so I reckon Gijs will get a few orders, but this must have been done primarily for the personal satisfaction.
 
Guys,

give Gijs a chance, please. It is always difficult to decide when to disclose the first steps achieved and maybe this was some weeks to early. I know Gijs is not a "show-off" type of guy and I am scratching my head a bit about timing, but then: due to corona, there is a lot of time many people have and maybe it is the right time to give the doubters a chance to air their doubts before results will show them/us wrong.

With the nikasil liners, oil-temperatures go down by 20% I think was said. that means a 20?C cooler oil-temperature roughly, which is a major step alone!

really can't wait to see the real life figures...  8)

 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top