Torque wrenches lie!

Hi Bob, thanks for raising this, good point. I haven't used them but was also looking at them. Not sure why I did not consider it to be honest. would have been interesting to test it on my test device, too, to see how accurate it really is.

Regarding @Andy J 's question, I haven't worked with Norbar yet. Gedore I can confirm that they are very precise. The old one (which is quite heavy compared to the new one) was still well in its range after 40 years. I do hope the new one will be, too. But if not, I still can adjust it ;-)
 
BobSol said:
Hi Andy
I'm amazed there has been no mention of digital torque wrenches on this thread. They have, until recently been too expensive for amateur use but are now affordable. I bought myself one for Christmas and am super impressed with it. It's a German brand, Mannesmann 3/8" drive with calibration certificate at £108.95 from Ebay. It beeps as you approach your preset target and then a constant sound at torque desired. The best feature is that it constantly displays the applied torque which means if you're approaching your target and the figure isn't increasing you can stop before stripping the thread. I've got a couple of head nuts which felt "dodgy" using click type wrenches but with the digital wrench I could see that they simply would not go higher than 32nm (35nm target) so I stopped immediately. Knowing how close it is removes the nagging doubt.

Cheers Bob
Click to expand...
Not wanting to piss on your fire Bob, but Mannesmann certainly is not what one would class as a quality brand. They no longer manufacture much in Germany, possibly why it is so affordable. I wouldn't expect too much from it, precision or durability wise. Depends a lot on how much you use it.

Sorry,
piet
 
Hi Piet
Well, it came with a lengthy warranty and a calibration certificate. I know what you mean about sourcing and manufacturing overseas but even Rolls Royce Aerospace have their turbine blades manufactured in China these days. I'm delighted with it.
Regards Bob
 
Thanks for the replies. The Norbar is the TTi50 and the Geodore Red is R58900050.
I will also check out the digital one you mentioned Bob.
It’s probably not going to get a lot of use by me as I tend to get Andy B to do my engine work.
 
why should a digital torque wrench be the better one? Do we know what is inside that gives us the figures at the display? The mechanics inside of the wrench will be the same as in the others and the electronic makes it more exact? Do not believe it.
Andre
 
The Mannesmann I have found so far only starts at 17nm and I need one that works below that, so the Norbar is looking favourite at the moment.
 
I've used Norbar for longer than I care to remember....factory is 9 miles down the road! They offer a repair & recalibration service too. Now part of the Snap-on empire I see ... another British company sold!

Interesting history - Incorporated in 1943, the "North Bar Tool Company" became the first company in Britain to commercially manufacture torque wrenches. The initial demand was driven by the need for the gasket-less cylinder head of the Rolls Royce Merlin engine to be accurately tightened. Bill Brodey and his partner Ernest Thornitt obtained a licence from Britain's wartime Government to begin manufacture of torque wrenches and Norbar was born.
 
One significant negative of a digital device is that for the occasional user the battery always seems to be flat at that opportune moment when you pull it out for the first time in 12 months.
Regarding economical digital stuff (goes for any measuring device) there is a difference between resolution and precision. It's entirely possible to get good quality gear from unknown brands but it can be a lottery. As Rob has alluded, sadly tool companies have extensively consolidated both ownership and manufacturing. There are very few independents left. A plant might make very similar looking tools for various brands at differing quality levels (or even perhaps the same... lottery). Norbar are still AFAIK all UK-made (all mine are) and for a time as an example of the above, until recently Norbar were the OEM for Wera's torque tools (and likely others). Wera are now sourcing their new range of torque stuff from Taiwan.

AndyJ - since I have two almost identical units as you're considering this may be useful to you...
The only drawback of the TTi is it won't torque left handers, it has a reversible ratchet, but only torques RH. The Gedore is a push-through type and can torque either direction. The Gedore you've mentioned looks a lot like mine, with an updated nicer handle/dial but similar head/mechanism. Downside of the Gedore is that the head is huge - larger than my 100Nm Norbar and almost as large as my 340Nm one! The TTi shown below is a 20Nm but the 50 is identical aside having a longer handle. Overall the Gedore is like a large wrench built down to a small capacity, whereas a TTi50 is a small wrench with a large capacity.
Both are excellent tools and will serve you well, but I'd go the Norbar unless you really need to do left handers (more so given you live in UK where they are made!).

My somewhat extravagant collection: 20, 54,100 and 340Nm
(I had all 3 smaller ones set to 20Nm comparing feel, hence the small one at max setting. Always store zeroed)
1628300604820.png

The difference here is obvious:
1628300862239.png

And again (both 13mm sockets):
1628300933174.png

1628301042274.png
 
Thanks guys, I'm currently leading the bidding on a Norbar professional 10-50nm wrench. Is there much difference between that and a TTi50?
BTW I have a 1/2” push through wrench for other work but it’s range doesn’t start until 20nm, which is too high for the 500 studs.
 
Interesting to read about Norbar,had mine from the late `seventies,reads upto the equivalent of 150 Nm plus,would like to have it checked/re-calibrated if needed,notice they are at Banbury so as long as they deal with their older bars I could drop it off with them,rather than have it posted/delivered to them.
Also have a almost new 3/8 drive bar which reads upto 25 Nm ,not sure of the make right now as my garage is 20 miles away from where I live.
Both are click type.
One thing with more modern bikes compared to Laverdas is that EVERYTHING seems to have a torque setting(wouldn`t be suprised to see a value for the tyre valve caps).Have a `98 R1 which has seen previous owners,three or four of the more lightweight fasteners have stripped threads where they enter a casing,heavy handed bleeders going by "feel" probably rather than torqueing correctly.
On an older bike which has probably seen fasteners loosened and then over-tightened several times I tend to go slightly under the recomended setting ,especially on the smaller items.With that in mind I think I will get both bars checked asap.
 
I won the auction for the wrench. £68+ postage. It comes with a calibration certificate dated May 2021.
After I bid on the one I bought I then noticed another for £70 or best offer with free postage. Bum!
I also checked out my old wrench. It’s a Gordon, and actually starts at 20 lb/ft or 30nm. They were once a manufacturer of quality British made tools and I bought a load 30 odd years ago when an old chap, who had a business supplying tools next door to mine in Bristol, retired.
 
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With all this chat about torque wrenches I thought I'd look into having the Warren & Brown unit that's been in the family for decades tested. Hasn't had a lot of use, but seemed a good idea. Quoted AUD$160 + freight + GST has changed my mind about that! I can buy a new one for that kind of dough ... wonder what the hourly rate is and how long they think they can waste putting a torque meter on it and having a quick fiddle with the gauge mech??!!

All I really want is to have it tested so I can make a decision about whether to have it recal'd or not. I'm in the wrong business at my hourly rate ...
 
piranha-bro2 said:
With all this chat about torque wrenches I thought I'd look into having the Warren & Brown unit that's been in the family for decades tested. Hasn't had a lot of use, but seemed a good idea. Quoted AUD$160 + freight + GST has changed my mind about that! I can buy a new one for that kind of dough ... wonder what the hourly rate is and how long they think they can waste putting a torque meter on it and having a quick fiddle with the gauge mech??!!

All I really want is to have it tested so I can make a decision about whether to have it recal'd or not. I'm in the wrong business at my hourly rate ...
Click to expand...
A bloke I know is into making speaker enclosures, as a hobby. He calculates his hourly rate at ............. $5.00 per hour.
He did one (Powered Speaker Enclosure, six speakers. Bluetooth, Aux in, etc etc) for my work counterpart in Sydney ....... $1340 parts/$225 labour (45 x $5.00) .............. Helllloooo dickhead alert!
 
So would the work counterpart have bought them if the hourly rate had been $120??? 45 x $120 = $5400 + parts $1340 ... $6740. Bargain!!!

If i charged myself $120/hr for my SFQ I'd barely have anything left after selling the house to pay for labour alone!!

I'm guessing it doesn't take an hour to calibrate a torque wrench so they're probably up round the $180/hr mark!! Neurosurgeon's rates!
 
chrisk said:
A bloke I know is into making speaker enclosures, as a hobby. He calculates his hourly rate at ............. $5.00 per hour.
He did one (Powered Speaker Enclosure, six speakers. Bluetooth, Aux in, etc etc) for my work counterpart in Sydney ....... $1340 parts/$225 labour (45 x $5.00) .............. Helllloooo dickhead alert!
Click to expand...
C'mon CK, someones being nice!!
(Spent the better part of last 10 years charging a fair "fee" rather than calculated on a chargeable rate!! Oh, wait, does that make me. a.............:eek:)
 
Shajota said:
C'mon CK, someones being nice!!
(Spent the better part of last 10 years charging a fair "fee" rather than calculated on a chargeable rate!! Oh, wait, does that make me. a.............:eek:)
Click to expand...
Nah, as a contractor to us, he knows which side his bread is buttered..... mates rates etc. = more work in the future ;) ;)
 
piranha-bro2 said:
So would the work counterpart have bought them if the hourly rate had been $120??? 45 x $120 = $5400 + parts $1340 ... $6740. Bargain!!!

If i charged myself $120/hr for my SFQ I'd barely have anything left after selling the house to pay for labour alone!!

I'm guessing it doesn't take an hour to calibrate a torque wrench so they're probably up round the $180/hr mark!! Neurosurgeon's rates!
Click to expand...
Maybe they guy doesn’t work out of tent and has to account for things like staff ,premises, measuring devises, insurance , I could go on.....
 
I get your point, Cosimo, but maybe the guy works for a company that charges $180 and hour and pays him about $30. There are definitely specialist areas of work that warrant high prices, but I just don't see checking a torque wrench as one of them. If I can buy a new high quality wrench for a little more than the cost to check and calibrate it then something is way out of kilter. Or does the sucker who gets the wrench looked at subsidise the other hyper expensive machinery and equipment? Just sayin' ...
 
You can check the calibration yourself with a bit of ingenuity. It's just ft.lbs or Newton.metres. If you apply a known force at a known distance out along the handle (or beyond the handle if you extend it) you have a reference torque. Easiest way to generate a known and repeatable force is with weights hanging from a bit of string. Better still, use a bucket of water (1 litre = 1 kg = 9.8 newtons in Earth's gravity). Don't forget to allow for the weight of the bucket. Water is good because you can dribble it in slowly to increase the torque until the wrench clicks, then measure how much water you have in the bucket. Work out the torque and see how it compares with the wrench setting.

If I were doing it, I'd set the wrench up so it's rotating within the horizontal plane, and run the bucket string over a pully so the bucket hangs vertically. Doing it that way eliminates any error from the weight of the wrench handle, or the 6ft piece of water pipe you use to extend it with (long handle = less weight required in the bucket).
 
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