wanted - moto giro bike

I doubt the engine case halves would have been polished originally. Not sure about the outer cover in my photos above. While the engine cases do not show how beat up they are in hte few photos I have posted, but my issue is just how battered the engine looks in real life. It looks much better after the repeated trips through the ultrasonic tank and then the vapour blasting, but the engine case halves still look really beat up. If the paint turns out as well as I am expecting, the current engine case condition would look out of place. I am trying to find a middle ground. I am going to check into having most of the worst of the dents and dings and scratches sanded/polished out of the engine cases, then decide whether I like it shiny or if I will have the cases vapour blasted again for a satin look. That outer case in the photos above is going to be shiny regardless.
 
Paul LeClair said:
I doubt the engine case halves would have been polished originally. Not sure about the outer cover in my photos above. While the engine cases do not show how beat up they are in hte few photos I have posted, but my issue is just how battered the engine looks in real life. It looks much better after the repeated trips through the ultrasonic tank and then the vapour blasting, but the engine case halves still look really beat up. If the paint turns out as well as I am expecting, the current engine case condition would look out of place. I am trying to find a middle ground. I am going to check into having most of the worst of the dents and dings and scratches sanded/polished out of the engine cases, then decide whether I like it shiny or if I will have the cases vapour blasted again for a satin look. That outer case in the photos above is going to be shiny regardless.
Click to expand...
I guess you could ask Red what he did to Todds.

1642987140757.png
 
"honest patina" you say........ that would be about all the patina that would be left, everything else is going to be over the top over restored at this point.....:eek:;)

Chris, that triple photo is gorgeous, love all the finer details as well
 
now on the hunt for valves/guides/seats/valve prings, and valve collets/keepers. Was measuring, they are a tiny decimal amount under 7 mm stem, now about to begin learning how valves are measured to be replaced. Another new world for me, at least there are only two of them.

Laverda triples use 7 mm valve stems, hmmmmmm
 
Years ago I remember someone ended up with excessive valve stem clearance by confusing where this clearance was achieved and ended up with double clearance and a smoky rebuild.
 
Hi Vince

nothing for me to get confused about re valve guide to valve stem clearance as I have no idea what I am doing, will have to rely on someone who does. Going to ask Wolfgang for generic information for late 50's Italian small bore engines

Just ordered a New Old Stock oversize piston/pin/rings out of Italy this evening, also have no idea what piston to bore clearance or ring end gap to use. The piston vendor is checking to determine if he can also supply new valves/guides/collets/valve springs.

When the valve keepers fragmented they hammered up and down in use, hammered open the space they are supposed to fit tightly inside, were working towards breaking off the end of the valve stem, must be a tough little engine, clearly had been running like that for quite a while, but likely not for much longer. That mushroom type end of the valve stem is only half the thickness it is supposed to be. Was also fitted with a cap much like a Laverda valve shim, which had already broken. As a replacement cap on each valve I am actually going to use Laverda 7 mm valve shims. (Laverda Content!!)
 

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Nominal stem diametre is 7mm. Many valves are produced with their clearance "built-in", ie, the clearance is reduced from the stem. This allows the guide to be machined to a pre-determined diametre, ie, with a fixed reamer, which is both easier and preciser than machining it to some wacky dimension. In this case, the guide would be finished with a 7mm H7 reamer, giving a total clearance of 0.01-0.02mm, which sounds about right.

I'd suggest you get yourself a set of micrometers, calipers are only an estimate for this sort of work, even if made by Mitotoyu (which do belong to the best).

piet
 
Hi Piet
I recently spent the money to add a Mitoyou digital micrometer to the tool box along with a machinists ruler also from Mitoyou. Still replacing items destroyed in the garage fire now 14 months ago. Time flies. Thanks for the info. Wolfgang had offered me valves and guides from a Laverda 350 with same valve face diameter but 6 mm stem. I do now have a line on 7 mm valves and guides of correct dimensions. Waiting to hear if stock is available

Central Wheel in the UK has advised they are out of stock on WM1 x 19 shouldered rims and do not expect restocking any time soon due to supply chain issues. They can make the spokes but not 3 mm. In imperial size works out to roughly 3.2 mm. Have found on eBay Raedelli Aimon(sp?)racing rims from original Italian manufacturer. Not shouldered but proper heritage but no spokes. Now wondering if 3.2 mm spoke would work in a Raedelli Italian rim? https://www.ebay.ca/itm/362668060200?hash=item5470b36e28:g:rboAAOSwm2Nc9XV3 Rather, easy enough to drill rim holes slightly larger if necessary, but wondering if the wheel hubs would be an issue?
 
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If you're fitting new valve guides, you don't necessarily have to stick with 7mm valve stem diameter.
Cylinder hear recon guys can buy valve guide blanks and machine them as required.

A quick look on line revealed a few cylinder head specialists in your area. For example:

ABC Engine Rebuilders
780-452-3313
16081-132 Avenue
Edmonton, AB T5V 1H8
abcenginerebuilders.com

Alberta Cylinder Head and Engine Rebuilders

We are a full-service engine machine shop, specializing in repair, rebuilding and machining of automotive, marine and diesel cylinder heads and engines.
abcenginerebuilders.com abcenginerebuilders.com

Bilt-Rite Cylinder Head Service (1986) Ltd
(403) 243-5538
3636C Dartmouth Road SE
Calgary, AB

Precise Engine Rebuilders Inc
(403) 287-1655
1321 Hastings Crescent SE,
Calgary, AB T2G 4C8

Firebolt Engine Installation Centres Inc
(403) 253-4415
425 58 Avenue SE,
Calgary, AB T2H 0P5
 
Surprisingly not so easy in NSW to find someone who makes spokes, the father and son team who have a stela rep for wheel building, they had a huge pile of tubeless BMW spokes wheels from the Oz distributed to true told me they didn't make spokes. Amazing.
 
The 3.2 will be spoke, relevant to hub, and if necessarily opening by 0.2mm if needed should not be a problem. Nipple size is relevant to the rim. When I have drilled blank rims it is always to the nipple I have to fit, also unlikely to be a problem. Be aware that alloy rims generally have longer nipples than for steel rims due to rim material thickness.
 
Paul LeClair said:
Have found on eBay Raedelli Aimon(sp?)racing rims from original Italian manufacturer. Not shouldered but proper heritage but no spokes. Now wondering if 3.2 mm spoke would work in a Raedelli Italian rim? https://www.ebay.ca/itm/362668060200?hash=item5470b36e28:g:rboAAOSwm2Nc9XV3 Rather, easy enough to drill rim holes slightly larger if necessary, but wondering if the wheel hubs would be an issue?
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Hi Paul, they offer shouldered rims also: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/174900530772
Ciao, Gert
 
I read that description 3 times and still don't exactly know if these are Italian made or Chinese copies, it says Akront Italian style. Emphasis on Style. And then a hard to get description about selling both Italian and Chinese copies. The biggest issue I have had with the latter in other products is poor quality Metallurgy failing way quicker than you would like. So who knows? In my case, I bought the Spanish made Morad, a reasonable compromise between the expensive Italian and the cheap Chinese, but this all depends on availability anyway. I made inquirers with the Oz importer of the Italian made rims about the 3.0 rear I wanted and never heard back and Cental Wheel had them, sadly they don't have what you want Paul so good luck looking and deciding.
 
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Vince said:
I read that description 3 times and still don't exactly know if these are Italian made or Chinese copies, it says Akront Italian style. Emphasis on Style. And then a hard to get description about selling both Italian and Chinese copies. The biggest issue I have had with the latter in other products is poor quality Metallurgy failing way quicker than you would like. So who knows? In my case, I bought the Spanish made Morad, a reasonable compromise between the expensive Italian and the cheap Chinese, but this all depends on availability anyway. I made inquirers with the Oz importer of the Italian made rims about the 3.0 rear I wanted and never heard back and Cental Wheel had them, sadly they don't have what you want Paul so good luck looking and deciding.
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Akront hasn't existed for years, it was bought by Morad. So either that rim is NOS or a Morad.

Paul
 
Paul LeClair said:
Central Wheel in the UK has advised they are out of stock on WM1 x 19 shouldered rims and do not expect restocking any time soon due to supply chain issues. They can make the spokes but not 3 mm. In imperial size works out to roughly 3.2 mm. Have found on eBay Raedelli Aimon(sp?)racing rims from original Italian manufacturer. Not shouldered but proper heritage but no spokes. Now wondering if 3.2 mm spoke would work in a Raedelli Italian rim? https://www.ebay.ca/itm/362668060200?hash=item5470b36e28:g:rboAAOSwm2Nc9XV3 Rather, easy enough to drill rim holes slightly larger if necessary, but wondering if the wheel hubs would be an issue?
Click to expand...

Paul have you checked the availability of Borrani rims at Buchanan's?

Buchanan's is proud to be your distributor for these iconic Borrani Rims. Not the same as the
counterfeit rims made in China, these are the Italian made Borrani rims you are looking for.
Borrani%E0%BA%88;;;;;;;;;;;Logo.jpg
"ONLY BORRANI CAN PRODUCE BORRANI'S"

Check us out on the Ruote Borrani website at
www.ruoteborrani.com/en/wire-wheels-for-motorcycles/classic/distributors
Borrani%E0%BA%88;;;;;;;;;;;Logo.jpg

WE CUSTOM PUNCH YOUR RIM TO ORDER.
The following rims are NOT pre-punched. Please state Make, Model and Year, Front or Rear, Disc or Drum
when you submit your order. Rim lock holes can be drilled, but only upon request at the time of your order.​

Borrani Dimpled Aluminum Rims - Shouldered - Made in Italy
High ribbed (aka shouldered) dimpled rims for vintage racing or restorations.
Prices shown include custom punching for the hole count specified.
Part #DescriptionPrice
RBWM11736HBORRANI WM1 (1.60) x 17" SHOULDERED ALUMINUM RIM - 36H
$279.00​
​
RBWM11740HBORRANI WM1 (1.60) x 17" SHOULDERED ALUMINUM RIM - 40H
$279.00​
​
RBWM11836HBORRANI WM1 (1.60) x 18" SHOULDERED ALUMINUM RIM - 36H
$289.00​
​
RBWM11840HBORRANI WM1 (1.60) x 18" SHOULDERED ALUMINUM RIM - 40H
$289.00​
​
RBWM11936HBORRANI WM1 (1.60) x 19" SHOULDERED ALUMINUM RIM - 36H
$300.00​
​
RBWM11940HBORRANI WM1 (1.60) x 19" SHOULDERED ALUMINUM RIM - 40H
$300.00​
​
RBWM12136HBORRANI WM1 (1.60) x 21" SHOULDERED ALUMINUM RIM - 36H
$312.00​
​
RBWM12140HBORRANI WM1 (1.60) x 21" SHOULDERED ALUMINUM RIM - 40H
$312.00​
​
RBWM21836HBORRANI WM2 (1.85) x 18" SHOULDERED ALUMINUM RIM - 36H
$312.00​
​
RBWM21840HBORRANI WM2 (1.85) x 18" SHOULDERED ALUMINUM RIM - 40H
$312.00​
​
RBWM21936HBORRANI WM2 (1.85) x 19" SHOULDERED ALUMINUM RIM - 36H
$322.00​
​
RBWM21940HBORRANI WM2 (1.85) x 19" SHOULDERED ALUMINUM RIM - 40H - 1 in stock
$322.00​
​
RBWM31836HBORRANI WM3 (2.15) x 18" SHOULDERED ALUMINUM RIM - 36H
$343.00​
​
RBWM31840HBORRANI WM3 (2.15) x 18" SHOULDERED ALUMINUM RIM - 40H
$343.00​
​
RBWM31936HBORRANI WM3 (2.15) x 19" SHOULDERED ALUMINUM RIM - 36H
$355.00​
​
RBWM31940HBORRANI WM3 (2.15) x 19" SHOULDERED ALUMINUM RIM - 40H
$355.00​
 
Borani is back making rims now so it could be new original stock as well but probably too cheap to be that. From memory, the brand new Boranis are approx twice the cost of Morads. My 3.0 Morad was $400oz and Boranis were $700ish each but it's been 2 or 3 years. As per that chart above, no 2.5 or 3.0.
 
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