What did you do to or for or with your Laverda today?

Don't worry Tom, the clutch drums are not really balanced out of the factory. If you were careful with the hole spacing the balance won't have changed. I. E. It might still be good, or bad. I think the external machining was more to clean-up the casting than an attempt at truing or balancing.
 
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sfcpiet said:
Timing chains have replaced toothed belts in many of todays engines.

piet
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Not sure this is progress though, at least not concerning Audi f.e... Audi has completely failed to get it working properly. My 3.0 TFSI engine has now the second set of cam chains in 170.000km. wouldn't be a problem, if you would not need to take the engine out to actually install them. For that, the gearbox needs to be out, the complete front needs to be removed and the engine afterwards taken out. As all hydraulic cam chain tensioner and chains need replacement, the parts alone are around 1.200€...

Audi charges you 9.000€ for this operation. Other companies in Germany around 5.000. If you find someone trustable from Poland, it can be done for below 3.000€. Still - "Vorsprung durch Technik" was their slogan years ago (advantage by technology?). After 20 years of driving Audi, I am not sure this is still true... Mercedes cam chain systems see bullet-proof against Audi's...

Be happy, it is a fairly easy job on our bikes and primary and cam chains (with exceptions) are readily available...
 
Haggis said:
Don't worry Tom, the clutch drums are not really balanced out of the factory. If you were careful with the hole spacing the balance won't have changed. I. E. It might still be good, or bad. I think the external machining was more to clean-up the casting than an attempt at truing or balancing.
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Those .'machining marks' look more like they were done on a course bench grinder to me. I just don't think they cared too much about the balance.

Audis, eh? No way i would own any car that asked that sort of money for 'regular' maintenance. Bullshit - total bullshit. I fitted a toothed belt to a Volvo 240 on the side of a suburban street where it had stopped due to breakage - incredibly, no bent valves (only SOHC helped thewree no doubt). Took about half an hour to fit. What's not to like - remove an engine and gearbox to fit a cam chain???!!! WTF.
 
piranha-bro2 said:
Those .'machining marks' look more like they were done on a course bench grinder to me. I just don't think they cared too much about the balance.

Audis, eh? No way i would own any car that asked that sort of money for 'regular' maintenance. Bullshit - total bullshit. I fitted a toothed belt to a Volvo 240 on the side of a suburban street where it had stopped due to breakage - incredibly, no bent valves (only SOHC helped thewree no doubt). Took about half an hour to fit. What's not to like - remove an engine and gearbox to fit a cam chain???!!! WTF.
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I totally agree. You can find good cars out there and they don't even have to be black.

Paul
 
Blimey Lothar, there's got to be an easier way to change the cam chain.

For example: take off the cam cover, break the old chain, attach the new chain to the end of the old one and turn the engine over to pull it through. It's easier if you have a spare chain to feed into the engine first. You turn the crankshaft one way to pull the spare chain in, then back again to pull the new chain through, so the crank finishes up exactly where it started and you preserve the valve timing. I've done that heaps of times in various engines.

I presume the Audi cam chains are endless, which is why they have to disassemble the entire car to fit it over the ends of the crank and camshafts. But if they quoted me 9k Euro, I'd be off to the chain shop to buy a €5 connecting link.
 
You're not taking into account that the chains need to be replaced because the guides and tensioners failed, Cam. And, in no way are you comprehending the depth of the issue... the whole caboodle is at the REAR of the engine!;) The pictured engine is a 3.0 litre TDI, the petrol engines are along similar lines.

I wouldn't have an Audi/Porsche/upper range VW if it were gifted to me, fucking 4-wheeled nightmares.

piets-l1600.jpg
 
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Faaark!! What a design nightmare!! So those V6 Tuareg's I see here and there are in the same boat? My old 2010 pompe deuse Skoda 2.0TDI is just fine for me - belt drive cams - already replaced - water pump done at the same time. No big deal $$$ wise.
 
All V6 Engines with cam chains from VW/Audi etc. suffer from the same issue. Some say it is the hydraulic tensioners that give up, some say its the chains lengthening to an extend where the engine rattles for up to 20 seconds when cold. Not sure what the root cause is as both get exchanged always at the same time.

Yes, it's a design nightmare. And NO, VW/Audi are NOT taking any responsibility when out of warrenty.

@Paul: this was my business car. at the time I started driving Audis, they were the only cars that you could drive 400km down to Stuttgart, have 2-3 meetings with customers, drive up 400 km back to my home and get out of the car without help and without seeing the doctor next day due to very bad back-pain. The A6 allroad I have offers every comfort I could think of. But it comes at a price that I am meanwhile not willing to pay anymore. BUT: if you drive a different car after an Audi with air-suspension etc., you have a hard time accepting the noise and rattle from the suspension of that other car...

They are great cars when it good shape. They are horribly expensive to fix if something's wrong.
 
Laverdalothar said:
@Paul: this was my business car. at the time I started driving Audis, they were the only cars that you could drive 400km down to Stuttgart, have 2-3 meetings with customers, drive up 400 km back to my home and get out of the car without help and without seeing the doctor next day due to very bad back-pain. The A6 allroad I have offers every comfort I could think of. But it comes at a price that I am meanwhile not willing to pay anymore. BUT: if you drive a different car after an Audi with air-suspension etc., you have a hard time accepting the noise and rattle from the suspension of that other car...

They are great cars when it good shape. They are horribly expensive to fix if something's wrong.
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You could do all of that 50 years ago in a Citroën DS Lothar, without all the complication.
We should be lobbying for more trains and less roads. And video meetings with customers. We now have video medical consultations so should be possible for sales.

Paul
 
piranha-bro2 said:
Faaark!! What a design nightmare!! So those V6 Tuareg's I see here and there are in the same boat? My old 2010 pompe deuse Skoda 2.0TDI is just fine for me - belt drive cams - already replaced - water pump done at the same time. No big deal $$$ wise.
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And the V8 and V10s as well.

Yep, the old P-D TDIs are almost unburstable, cheap and easy to maintain. 470000km on my 2001 1.9, see no reason to replace it any time soon. Reminds me, belt is due for replacement in 20000km.

Back to the chain topic... Ford has returned to chains in some of their engines. My 2006 Mazda MX-5 with a Ford Duratec 2.0 4-banger now has 240000km on the odo, runs as quietly and smoothly as day #1 with its original timing chain, tensioner and guides! Would now be on its 3rd belt. There's got to be some merit in using chains.

piet
 
My wife's first car was the little sister of the DS, a GSA. it cost a fortune to maintain and keep on the road. 1 day after the last repair, the oil-line broke and messed oil over the front brake that had freshly been overhauled. We took the chance to ask the garage-owner why there is such a nocking sound on the engine. "Yeah - I already wanted to tell you: the cam is completely worn out, it's surprising the car ist still running. It would surprise me even more if it makes more than 5.000km until it completely stops working."

We asked him what this means to repair and why he hadn't told us before. "Well - you wanted the breaks to be fixed - that's what we have done. To fix the engine makes no sense, the engine must come out, get completely dismanteled and the engine lower case split to exchange the cam; costs way more than the car is worth!" :mad:

Sounds somehow familiar...
 
Lothar,

Back in the days when I rarely had a couple of pennies to rub together, I had a GSX, the forerunner of the GSA. 54hp OHC boxer capable of 170km/h while only nipping fuel, Pallas trim to boot! Fantastic machine, I could/had to maintain it on a shoe-string budget. Served me well over 4 years, flogged it off when the rust became too much. Sadly, most are gone by now, I'd seriously consider another if a nice one turned up!

I do think there is a connection between mechanical reliability and mechanical sympathy. ;)

piet
 
sfcpiet said:
Back in the days when I rarely had a couple of pennies to rub together,

piet
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First road bike Honda CB175 whilst still at school.
I had a part time job in a gas station.
I would walk around the pumps periodically to drain any fuel in the hose bends and tip in my petrol tank. Filled it in one shift.
Similarly drained leftover drips from discarded car oil containers then oil the bike chain and top up the motor.
Lowest running cost bike I ever had.

Rob
 
Laverdalothar said:
My wife's first car was the little sister of the DS, a GSA. it cost a fortune to maintain and keep on the road. 1 day after the last repair, the oil-line broke and messed oil over the front brake that had freshly been overhauled. We took the chance to ask the garage-owner why there is such a nocking sound on the engine. "Yeah - I already wanted to tell you: the cam is completely worn out, it's surprising the car ist still running. It would surprise me even more if it makes more than 5.000km until it completely stops working."

We asked him what this means to repair and why he hadn't told us before. "Well - you wanted the breaks to be fixed - that's what we have done. To fix the engine makes no sense, the engine must come out, get completely dismanteled and the engine lower case split to exchange the cam; costs way more than the car is worth!" :mad:

Sounds somehow familiar...
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Lothar,

The DS and family had a 4 cylinder water cooled engine, the GS had a flat four air cooled engine apart from a rare Wankel which shared the engine with...... the Audi RO 80. Incidentally, the GS engine was used in the BFG motorcycle.
My first two family cars were GS estates. The engine did tend to wear but then I don't know the history of those cars before I bought them. Be it the DS which was one of my first cars or the two GS, as Piert points out, rust was the enemy. I also had a lovely Citroën Visa, 600cc flat twin air cooled which would let me know when I was doing more than 100 km/h by loosing bits of rusty bodywork. I moved on to a Xantia diesel with which I did 300 000 km. I unfortunately sold it because old diesels are going to be pushed off the road very soon and because in our consumer societies, you cannot find parts for a 20 year old car.. An excelent car that I regret.
I bought a Moroccan built Dacai which unfortunately has electric windows, manual is better,and I hope never to have to buy another car.

Paul
 
Can't believe anybody enjoyed working on old french cars! My first car, 1969 Peugeot 304A, was a great runner and comfy, but any engine bay work was a nightmare. I still have the weird angle wrenches and funky oil sump plug key I made. As most cars back in the day it rusted like hell.
Later worked on Citroen 2CV and ID 19, luckily not mine! Only french cars somewhat normal to work on IHMO were Renault R4/5 and with limitations Estafette.
 
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Basketcase said:
First road bike Honda CB175 whilst still at school.
I had a part time job in a gas station.
I would walk around the pumps periodically to drain any fuel in the hose bends and tip in my petrol tank. Filled it in one shift.
Similarly drained leftover drips from discarded car oil containers then oil the bike chain and top up the motor.
Lowest running cost bike I ever had.

Rob
Click to expand...
I remember collecting motor oil from leftovers while working at a service station. Drop by drop, it took 2 weeks to gather a litre. Every little bit counted...

piet
 
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