Your Favourite Honda ;o)

Paul Marx said:
I do however understand all too well why you feel reassured when criticising others.
Paul
Click to expand...
That looks a lot like criticism to me. We can argue till we're black and blue in the face about why a small concern owned by an Italian family who decided to make some big motorcycles went belly up, whereas a massive Japanese conglomerate with enormous capital and R&R capabilities didn't. Who cares?
 
I think we don't find a notable customer segment who bought a new Laverda twin or triple after every 3-5 years from the official sales channel.
 
Everyone binned the new Yokohama tyres. Jarno Saarinen took them from the trash, installed them and then won races. He said they slipped much better on the corners than Pirellis or similar tyres that had a sort of on/off grip. 🤣 I consider this was actually very well paired to his driving technique that was keeping the tyres a bit slipping all the time. This was a way to measure the grip all the time and he kept sure there was no any grip available that he didn't used.
 
Approximately in 1973 when the Triumph 750 Bonny was worth approx $1,700 CDA - The BMW 750S $2.250 - The Breganzie Laverda 750 SF at $3.300 that had to be assembled from parts in a crate - The Honda 4 750CB was selling for $1,100 - No wonder the Canadian European Motorcycle Dealers went under - I bought my Brand New 1970 Breganzie 750 SF0 in 73 registered to an EU Canadian Motorcycle Outlet (Slims Motorcycle Sales (Basically a Great Norton Outlet) Sudbury Ontario from Slim's Mechanic "Alien" assembled with 800Km's on her after the Dealership crashed for $1.600 CDN "What a Deal for a ride that would last me 45 years until I quit riding at 70 in approx 2020" ;o)
Only 200 70 SF0's where imported to Canada "Dissembled in crates" all Canadian EU Motorcycles Dealers went under that year ;o(

My buddy bought a 72 BMW 750S from Slim's for $2,000 (R90?)- One of the BEST 2 up shaft drive rides ever.

Slim's Cycle Sales like some other 200 Canadian EU Motorcycles Dealerships only had 1 750 SF0 Breganzie and it was in Parts to be assembled - Apparently a tariff sanction Shipping Parts was much cheaper Vs the Bike Assembled Complete as a Product but still $3.300 CDN - OUCH !

Had a tall read head Scott friend "John" with a 72 Ducati Bevel 750S whom I raced with through the winding Cambrian shield - Absurdly a beautiful ride - Nothing like the sound of two Italian twins racing - No Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha or Suzuki dared to join our madness in the 70's ;o)

It wasn't until the early 80's when that Suzuki 1100 Geexer showed up that Destroyed Breganzie - I should know - I rode a GSXR for one season and sold her - Too much Machine for me ;o)
 
Last edited:
I think you'll find that in 1972 BMWs were designated R750/5. The first "S" was the R69S from the mid 60s. The R90S that came out in 74/75
Correct me if I'm wrong as I was never a fan of BMs until I brought my R100GS. Had many mates that rode BMs back then. They were great bikes but not as exciting as my SF2.
 
I agree them old Beemers where not close to the excitement of riding a Breganzie or a Ducati but they were not meant to be back then other then to be a superlative 2 up rather sporty cruiser - The Japanese where still trying to figure it out - Really 900K shit ;o)

I can't go there regarding Motorcycle Friends who lost their lives riding them mid 70's Japanese Bikes from HELL !
Of coarse we were all in our twenty's through the 70's; and for myself, would never turn down an opportunity to race my Breganzie.

Hell - I even rode 800 miles from the Great White North just race Green to Red on Young street in Toronto on a hot summer Saturday night and do it all in 1st gear where Jap biker's lost all their time shifting - LOL.
 
Last edited:
Some huge import or tax discrepancies between different countries importing Laverdas c/w say Hondas. Finland and Canada ... crazy prices. Sure, in Australia an SF was more expensive than a CB750 but not so much that the extra $$$ levied for coming from small a Italian manufacturer with the very best components of the day couldn't be justified.

In the car world if you bought an Alfa, a Lancia, a Beemer, a Merc or even a Fiat, you were going to pay more for them than you would for a Toyota Crown/Corolla, Nissan Cedric. And I don't think any road testers would have derided any of those European cars for offering nothing above and beyond the the Usual Japanese offerings to justify the extra prices.
 
motoddrob said:
I think you'll find that in 1972 BMWs were designated R750/5. The first "S" was the R69S from the mid 60s. The R90S that came out in 74/75
Correct me if I'm wrong as I was never a fan of BMs in until I brought my R100GS. Had many mates that rode BMs back then. They were great bikes but not as exciting as my SF2.
Click to expand...
Still running mine, bought new winter 1990.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_6210.jpeg
    IMG_6210.jpeg
    430.8 KB · Views: 12
Steve G. said:
I certainly did not buy the lawn mower for ‘soul or character’. I wanted it to run. It’s a one pull start after 43 years of continuous use, I believe I chose very wisely. When I’m in the middle of Baja Mexico on the ‘red pig’, I think I chose wisely.
Click to expand...
My father in law has (had, as he is dead) 2 x Honda petrol powered generators, just in case the power goes out.

They are started once every six months….. first pull every time.

Now that he is dead dead, I get the call from my mother in law “it’s time to start the generators Chris”

Thank god they invented battery powered
vibrators! 😳 🤮
 
Regarding Laverda pricing when being compared to your favourite Honda ............

An oft repeated story is that when Roger Slater visited Breganze for a meeting with the management around `74 / `75 the first thing he told them was ...
....... " We are going to have to increase the price of the bikes ... " ........

I`m not sure exactly how much a SF or 3C cost a punter back then .... ( although I could look it up I suppose ) ..... but I`m pretty sure it was already well in excess of that demanded for the equivalent Z1 / CB750 / H2 / T150 or whatever .

So why did Roger feel the need for that increase ?

Presumably to provide a greater profit margin when taking into account importation costs / dealer support / tax duties / rent / advertising .......... and most importantly paying the the unit cost for each hand crafted , exclusive , characterful , high performing , good looking .............. ( stop me when you`ve had enough ) ........... motorcycle he wheeled out of the Breganze factory gates ......

Or maybe to maintain the price differential / profit margin demanded by every hand crafted / exclusive / characterful / zzzzzzzzzzzzz .............

( I`m sure that wasn`t really the case .... :unsure: ) ........


Of course his answer was to market the Jota .......... the opportunity to sell a bike at a price well in excess of the standard model , fitted with readily available performance parts at virtually zero extra cost to factory or importer ..........

Problem solved ............ :whistle: ...........
 
Last edited:
rocketonarail said:
Regarding Laverda pricing when being compared to your favourite Honda ............

An oft repeated story is that when Roger Slater visited Breganze for a meeting with the management around `74 / `75 the first thing he told them was ...
....... " We are going to have to increase the price of the bikes ... " ........

I`m not sure exactly how much a SF or 3C cost a punter back then .... ( although I could look it up I suppose ) ..... but I`m pretty sure it was already well in excess of that demanded for the equivalent Z1 / CB750 / H2 / T150 or whatever .

So why did Roger feel the need for that increase ?

Presumably to provide a greater profit margin when taking into account importation costs / dealer support / tax duties / rent / advertising .......... and most importantly paying the the unit cost for each hand crafted , exclusive , characterful , high performing , good looking .............. ( stop me when you`ve had enough ) ........... motorcycle he wheeled out of the Breganze factory gates ......

Or maybe to maintain the price differential / profit margin demanded by every hand crafted / exclusive / characterful / zzzzzzzzzzzzz .............

( I`m sure that wasn`t really the case .... :unsure: ) ........


Of course his answer was to market the Jota .......... the opportunity to sell a bike at a price well in excess of the standard model , fitted with readily available performance parts at virtually zero extra cost to factory or importer ..........

Problem solved ............ :whistle: ...........
Click to expand...
Lamborghini are expensive.
If the ad campaign had read " The Austin Allegro " of motorcycles, Slaters would never had got away with selling them as much as he did.

Paul
 
pf1 said:
Yes Jap suicide tyres we used to call them, dampers were crap as well. The 400/4 didn't do it for me, looked a nice package but was slow and boring. I actually really like the early dreams though and they had terrible handling and brakes. If oil changes and filter cleaning were neglected on the little Hondas big end failure was assured.
Never liked the Kawasaki Z650 either, that was boring as well.
Click to expand...
The main thing to remember about the 400/4 was you had to wind them up to over 6k and then they took off. It all became a bit frantic with the gear changing and exhaust note. Ride them below 6k and they are a bit boring and slow. Honda's especially of the 70’s run very tight piston to bore clearances and require a thorough warning up before being thrashed. Ignore that and the piston area between the top ring and the crown will suffer damage resulting in broken or stuck rings and high oil consumption. Scirocco Honda developed and made piston rings after WW11 and later moved onto making full clip-on bicycle motors.
As for the CB750F2 issues suffered by Paul, that was down to Honda trying to squeeze every last BHP from a 10 year old sohc design and trying to compete with dohc's from Kawasaki and Suzuki. The F2 valve angle was too shallow (the F2 had bigger valves) and this put a huge strain on the cam and valve gear resulting in rapid guide wear. All this was caused as a result of Honda transfering motorcycle engineers into the car engine development side of the business with the result they were five years behind the likes of Kawasaki, Suzuki and Yamaha.
Whilst the 80’s maybe considered some of the best years of jap bikes there was also the sales wars between the big four of who were the market leaders. There were some really underdeveloped bikes being released to the public back then as a result of rushed R&D, the Kawasaki Z250/305 twins, the Yamaha ZX550 & TR1, Suzuki GSX 250/400 twins, GSX400/4, X85 turbo etc. Honda were not immune either, the CBX550 looked great but had serious cam chain issues (as did the first CX500) and stupid inboard disc brakes, the CBX750 could be fragile and not forgetting the bike that nearly bankrupted Honda, the original VF750 with poor oiling to the cams and the Sabre with cracking frames. It was thanks to the awful VF750 that Honda gave us the VFR and the ultimate road bike, the RC30.
 
triton said:
The main thing to remember about the 400/4 was you had to wind them up to over 6k and then they took off. It all became a bit frantic with the gear changing and exhaust note. Ride them below 6k and they are a bit boring and slow. Honda's especially of the 70’s run very tight piston to bore clearances and require a thorough warning up before being thrashed. Ignore that and the piston area between the top ring and the crown will suffer damage resulting in broken or stuck rings and high oil consumption. Scirocco Honda developed and made piston rings after WW11 and later moved onto making full clip-on bicycle motors.
As for the CB750F2 issues suffered by Paul, that was down to Honda trying to squeeze every last BHP from a 10 year old sohc design and trying to compete with dohc's from Kawasaki and Suzuki. The F2 valve angle was too shallow (the F2 had bigger valves) and this put a huge strain on the cam and valve gear resulting in rapid guide wear. All this was caused as a result of Honda transfering motorcycle engineers into the car engine development side of the business with the result they were five years behind the likes of Kawasaki, Suzuki and Yamaha.
Whilst the 80’s maybe considered some of the best years of jap bikes there was also the sales wars between the big four of who were the market leaders. There were some really underdeveloped bikes being released to the public back then as a result of rushed R&D, the Kawasaki Z250/305 twins, the Yamaha ZX550 & TR1, Suzuki GSX 250/400 twins, GSX400/4, X85 turbo etc. Honda were not immune either, the CBX550 looked great but had serious cam chain issues (as did the first CX500) and stupid inboard disc brakes, the CBX750 could be fragile and not forgetting the bike that nearly bankrupted Honda, the original VF750 with poor oiling to the cams and the Sabre with cracking frames. It was thanks to the awful VF750 that Honda gave us the VFR and the ultimate road bike, the RC30.
Click to expand...
Thanks for corroborating my experience with that heap that was my F2.
It's sale helped with the purchase of my 3CL/Jota. I've never looked back.
Paul
 
One of the best bikes that I've owned was my Honda VTR1000...... Horrible fuel range.... If I was "on it" the fuel light would come on at 120kms. If I was riding like a Scotsman I could manage 210kms and at 220kms I was knew pushing it was likely imminent.

It seems that I've always owned a two wheeled Honda along with any of my other bikes.

My list is as follows:

1975 XR75 - First bike.
1979 CBX - Still wish I had that one. One of the best sounding engines ever, right up there with the Matra V12.
1983 CB1100f - Vile handling machine that I swear left two separate tire tracks if you rode it through a puddle.
1987 CR250 - Fantastic MX bike.
1993 CR500 - Nobody returns an atheist after riding a CR500.
1998 VTR1000 - Best bike I've ever owned. I would run it through the gearbox on one wheel. Staintunes sounded Beautiful.
2004 XR650R - The Big Red Pig. The liquid cooled Baja legend.... I can switch it to off road or my supermoto set up in a couple of hours because of my twin front end and brake set up. It only makes 55hp at the rear wheel but it's still a blast.

I am a believer that motorcycling history falls into two periods: the day before the release of the CB750 four and the day after the release of the CB750 four.

Cheers
 
Last edited:
I owned a '99 VFR800Fi for a couple of years, kept at the front of the garage as the 'go to' bike.
Trouble was, it was so bloody good that it was being used virtually all the time, to the detriment of the others, Laverdas included 🫤
So I sold it.

Remarkable value and an outstanding package for a 20+ year old bike. I'd have another, if I had a need for a good, cheap, reliable daily.
20220601_111345.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top