Eu U-turn on petrol cars

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I'm doing my best to keep vanity at bay but unfortunately we've just had to replace our dishwasher after giving 18 years of faithful service :cry:

I'm not even going to brag about the new one but it is oh soooo quiet and.........has wi fi connect to!........what is the world coming to :D
 
Schurminater said:
I'm doing my best to keep vanity at bay but unfortunately we've just had to replace our dishwasher after giving 18 years of faithful service :cry:

I'm not even going to brag about the new one but it is oh soooo quiet and.........has wi fi connect to!........what is the world coming to :D
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Vanity is an old tart.
Paul
 
rocketonarail said:
I reckon we`re actually fortunate to be living through a period of global warming ........... just wait till the next Ice Age comes around ........ ( which it will ) ..........

When you consider the canyons and mountains we see today were formed by the giant glaciers of the past , then that really WILL be the end of mankind ..... no one is going to survive that ....... A period of global warming will be looked back upon as a walk in the park in comparison
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Modern humans evolved during the last Ice Age and survived the last Glacial Maximum, between 26,000 and 20,000 years ago. They have been enjoying Global Warming for, at least, the past 12,000 years.
No reason to suppose that some would not survive the next one.
 
The Sock said:
Modern humans evolved during the last Ice Age and survived the last Glacial Maximum, between 26,000 and 20,000 years ago. They have been enjoying Global Warming for, at least, the past 12,000 years.
No reason to suppose that some would not survive the next one.
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All that ice and ever present sub zero temperatures will require quite a change in peoples lifestyles though ............ ( as you say , it will be a matter of survival ...... ) ......

One plus for those who lamented Brexit ..... there will be an land bridge connecting England and France again , due to lower sea levels .

I was thinking in general terms regarding a next Ice Age , a worse case scenario , rather than a specific period ...... I know these can vary .


Although experiencing a greenhouse period at the moment , the planet is currently existing within a longer established icehouse period , which began some 34 million years ago ........ ( the periods can vary as well as alternate ) .........

I reckon once they know the current greenhouse period is about to revert back to icehouse again , then ....... depending how cold they think it will get ....... they may do something like set up giant reflective mirrors in the Earth`s orbit to direct as much of the Sun`s warmth as possible towards us ........

........ ( maybe ....... perhaps I read too many Dan Dare / Eagle comics when I was a kid ... ) .........
 
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I stumbled on this doco a while back, absolutely fascinating views on World Populations. It's far from simple.
 
Perry said:
Lothar you are obviously a very deep thinker and a very deep and serious person and no doubt the world needs people like you. I on the other hand am a happily shallow person who does not take life too seriously and looks for the humour in almost any situation. My main worry at the moment is whether West Bromwich Albion will ever get back to the premier league ( unlikely ).
I really couldn't give a fat rats arse if people want to drive electric or stick with 6 litre V12's .
You ask why instead of the burning Tesla I did not post 60 pictures of burning ICE cars, well because I think if the boy was to be seen crying over a burning ICE Mini the reaction would be one of confusion not laughter. It really was just a joke, not to be taken seriously except possibly by very serious people.
Anyway Happy Christmas and keep smiling.
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Dont tell him your name Perry!
 
Last week, Canada experienced its coldest day in 50+ years,,,,the village of Breaburn, Yukon on December 23 experienced -57.7C
(-68.26F). Before wind chill.
10,000 yrs ago where I live on the shores of the Eastern Pacific, there was 1.6kms of ice. Minimal life existed. Global warming eliminated this ice 9500 yrs before the human industrial age emerged, on the opposite side of the earth.
Human death by weather is almost exclusive to cold weather rather than hot weather. Consistently.

Global warming is a natural ebb and flow of Earth’s 9 billion year relationship with the sun. To think that we smart little ants walking around are responsible for temperature change is that of an imbecile.

Pollution. Now yes, that is a serious concern. 3rd world countries working towards 1st world status are leaving a mark that is negative. Plastic pollution is the scurge. Windmills are part of that scurge, a component that cannot be recycled, after its surprisingly short life. Same for solar panels,,, just gotta bury them.

www.theweathernetwork.com

Canada feels its coldest December temperature in 50 years - The Weather Network

Extreme cold persists in Northern Canada, with temperatures ranging from -20°C to -40°C for several weeks. On Dec. 23, the region recorded its coldest December temperature since 1975.
www.theweathernetwork.com www.theweathernetwork.com
 
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The Great Storm of 1703 which struck Southern England killed 8,000 people .........

4,000 oak trees were unrooted in the New Forest alone ...... Ships were blown 100 miles off course ........ 1000 dead sailors were washed up on the Goodwin Sands ..........

The Royal Navy lost 300 ships that were anchored along the South coast .

5000 homes next to the River Thames in London were destroyed ...... Hundreds of people were killed by falling chimney stacks ...... Queen Anne had to shelter in a cellar to avoid being injured by falling masonry .......... The lead roof of Westminster Abbey was blown off .......

Hundreds of people were drowned by flooding on the Somerset Levels ..... One ship ended up 15 miles inland .........

Plymouth , Bristol , Portsmouth and Hull as well as London were left devastated .......


The Church of England said it was God`s revenge for the sins of the nation ........

Nowadays the Met Office would probably give it the name Emily , and blame it on "climate change " ..........
 
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rocketonarail said:
All that ice and ever present global sub zero temperatures will require quite a change in peoples lifestyles though ............ ( as you say , it will be a matter of survival ...... ) ......

One plus for those who lamented Brexit ..... there will be an land bridge connecting England and France again , due to lower sea levels .

I was thinking in general terms regarding a next Ice Age , a worse case scenario , rather than a specific period ...... I know these can vary .


Although experiencing a greenhouse period at the moment , the planet is currently existing within a longer established icehouse period , which began some 34 million years ago ........ ( the periods can vary as well as alternate ) .........

I reckon once they know the current greenhouse period is about to revert back to icehouse again , then ....... depending how cold they think it will get ....... they may do something like set up giant reflective mirrors in the Earth`s orbit to direct as much of the Sun`s warmth as possible towards us ........

........ ( maybe ....... perhaps I read too many Dan Dare / Eagle comics when I was a kid ... ) .........
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you have a total missunderstanding of the consequences of global warming if you think sea-level will LOWER...

If 98% of all relevant researchers are in sync on the fact that for several thousand years, the clima was almost stabil and that since the industrialisation 150 years ago, temperatures and CO2 values are massively growing and that our polution has exponentially grown, too, I wonder where we want to get food for more than 10 billion people (which is what we shortly reach) when increasing dry summers are lowering the average harvest and food production we bring in?

What do we think happens to southern Europe when the heat is increasing and people can't be fed anymore? We will see a MASSIVE move of people from around the equator to the (still) colder north. Everything we have seen so far is just the tip of the iceberg that will role accross Europe. We will see wars for territories that have better climate on a scale that makes the Ukraine war look like a friendly banter between neighbours...

Thinking we can continue like we did the past 150 years is just insane, sorry.

@Perry : I love a good laugh, believe me. For a german, I think I am quite humorous (at least that is what people tell me ;-) ). The point is, that some things should be thought through a bit more as not doing that is simply supporting potentially the wrong message, the wrong party, the wrong government etc. etc. The world is currently full of BS, lies etc. and as said, I fell for this for to long, too. I understand you found it funny and in a way, the picture itself is. We just need to be aware of the background of these kind of "jokes" a bit more and that is what I would like to ask for, please.

We are not isolated and we have no other planet to go to (allthough I wished Musk would succeed and take Bezos, Zuckerberg, Trump and some others with him to Mars, best with no way back... :devilish:).

@Jota Rob one could think keeping old cars in service would be a good idea, as most of the impact is done in production. It can be, but it depends highly (!!) on their fuel efficiency and their level of service. If you replace f.e. - like I did - an A6 with a 3 Liter Engine that consumes between 11 and 17 Liter of gas/100km with a new BEV (similar power, similar range, similar space), the environmental footprint is better for the new BEV within just 3-4 years of usage, mainly as I charge it with solar power when ever possible. All a question of the individual situation. And I agree, in some cases it makes no sense or people can't afford it. That will change over time, I am pretty sure, as there is no real alternative to it.
 
Laverdalothar said:
you have a total missunderstanding of the consequences of global warming if you think sea-level will LOWER...

If 98% of all relevant researchers are in sync on the fact that for several thousand years, the clima was almost stabil and that since the industrialisation 150 years ago, temperatures and CO2 values are massively growing and that our polution has exponentially grown, too, I wonder where we want to get food for more than 10 billion people (which is what we shortly reach) when increasing dry summers are lowering the average harvest and food production we bring in?

What do we think happens to southern Europe when the heat is increasing and people can't be fed anymore? We will see a MASSIVE move of people from around the equator to the (still) colder north. Everything we have seen so far is just the tip of the iceberg that will role accross Europe. We will see wars for territories that have better climate on a scale that makes the Ukraine war look like a friendly banter between neighbours...

Thinking we can continue like we did the past 150 years is just insane, sorry.

@Perry : I love a good laugh, believe me. For a german, I think I am quite humorous (at least that is what people tell me ;-) ). The point is, that some things should be thought through a bit more as not doing that is simply supporting potentially the wrong message, the wrong party, the wrong government etc. etc. The world is currently full of BS, lies etc. and as said, I fell for this for to long, too. I understand you found it funny and in a way, the picture itself is. We just need to be aware of the background of these kind of "jokes" a bit more and that is what I would like to ask for, please.

We are not isolated and we have no other planet to go to (allthough I wished Musk would succeed and take Bezos, Zuckerberg, Trump and some others with him to Mars, best with no way back... :devilish:).

@Jota Rob one could think keeping old cars in service would be a good idea, as most of the impact is done in production. It can be, but it depends highly (!!) on their fuel efficiency and their level of service. If you replace f.e. - like I did - an A6 with a 3 Liter Engine that consumes between 11 and 17 Liter of gas/100km with a new BEV (similar power, similar range, similar space), the environmental footprint is better for the new BEV within just 3-4 years of usage, mainly as I charge it with solar power when ever possible. All a question of the individual situation. And I agree, in some cases it makes no sense or people can't afford it. That will change over time, I am pretty sure, as there is no real alternative to it.
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If you read it again ......... you will see I said the lowering of sea levels is likely to be a consequence of LOWER global temperatures ...... not higher ........

( It was the next " Ice Age " we were talking about .....) ........

A lower level is thought to be the result of glaciation taking water to form the glaciers , thus lowering the sea level ......... ( I know some people mess around with the ice cube in a glass of water thing .... the effects of displacement or not ... ) ..........

It might also be the case that growing glaciation may cause restricted river or water channel flow in some cases , leading to exposure of previously submerged areas .

I agree with what you say about the consequences of climate change and how it may affect future generations ........ or even the upcoming generation .

Climate change will occur anyway .........As to man`s contribution to that change ........ the root cause is too many people consuming too much of the planets resources ........ If we had a nice manageable world population of maybe 3-4 billion , then we could probably get away with burning fossil fuels without too many detrimental effects ........ everything would be more in balance regarding population v the planets ability to cope .

However , as you point out , we now have 8 billion and climbing ........ clearly unsustainable , but we`re stuck with it ...........


Electric vehicles and renewables represent the latest chapter in a history of corporate led products to be sold to the public in order to fulfill " a need " ......... In this case the need to reduce emissions and combat global warming ........

In reality they represent nothing more than the use of a sticking plaster in order to try to cure a migraine ......... placebo products which the concerned , environmentally aware consumer will want to own , be associated with .... ( or just want to be seen with ) .......... but which will do nothing to address a problem which needs a solution which no one is prepared to accept or pay the price for ......

As long as we are locked into a downward spiral of growth , growth , consumer demand and supply ( and that includes you , Mr EV driver ) ......... instead of taking the path towards consolidation , stabilisation and conservation ....... then we will continue to be sucked down into a whirlpool from which there is no escape ..........
 
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You answered to "the sock"'s statement about global warming. There is no lowering of global temperatures to be expected in the next thousands of years - not sure why you think so?!?

98 % of all researchers warn for global warming; and that will not result in more glaciation. the glaciers are melting rapidly, so do the pole caps. Sea level will (and is already) rise as a consequence. Global warming will not lower sea level, it will rise it (and already does). It will shift the way the golf streem and other streems work around the globe and will result in MASSIVE weather changes (which we see the signs already with more frequent and more intense storms and bad weather situations). This will result in lower food production due to storms ruining the harvest of big areas etc. etc. etc.

The planet will heal once we have caused our own extermination. Until then, the next generations will have to cope with problems our grandfathers, fathers and us caused.
 
Laverdalothar said:
You answered to "the sock"'s statement about global warming. There is no lowering of global temperatures to be expected in the next thousands of years - not sure why you think so?!?

98 % of all researchers warn for global warming; and that will not result in more glaciation. the glaciers are melting rapidly, so do the pole caps. Sea level will (and is already) rise as a consequence. Global warming will not lower sea level, it will rise it (and already does). It will shift the way the golf streem and other streems work around the globe and will result in MASSIVE weather changes (which we see the signs already with more frequent and more intense storms and bad weather situations). This will result in lower food production due to storms ruining the harvest of big areas etc. etc. etc.

The planet will heal once we have caused our own extermination. Until then, the next generations will have to cope with problems our grandfathers, fathers and us caused.
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This is only funny if you read it with the voice of a Dalek- then it’s comedy gold!
 
If all goes well I've only got another 25 years on this planet. I live in a beautiful a 500 year old old growth forest. A massive forest fire is a bigger threat to me than global warming, which I do believe in. I don't want to think about climate change, wars in Europe, the current fucked up situation going on in the states and all the other shit that's going on in the world. I do have a lot of empathy for people suffering but at the end of the day it's out of my control. If I was to take on board all the suffering going on in the world I'd be depressed. I live in paradise so why would I want to be depressed for when my life is in a pretty good space. I drive down to my pristine remote beaches, [in my big 4.2 litre diesel Land Cruiser] and I find plastic of all sizes on the beach. We have seriously fucked the planet. Feel sorry for the next generation but their future is fucked anyway from AI and technology. Loss of freedoms, life in front of a screen, obesity, diabetes and all the negativity the future holds.
Even though I like to keep abreast of whats going on in the world I don't take it seriously as that'll just fuck with my head.
Life is good so enjoy it while you can. It's the next generation that'll have to sort it all out. Not my problem!!
And I thought that Testla joke was pretty funny. I try and have a good laugh every day.
 
Laverdalothar said:
You answered to "the sock"'s statement about global warming. There is no lowering of global temperatures to be expected in the next thousands of years - not sure why you think so?!?

98 % of all researchers warn for global warming; and that will not result in more glaciation. the glaciers are melting rapidly, so do the pole caps. Sea level will (and is already) rise as a consequence. Global warming will not lower sea level, it will rise it (and already does). It will shift the way the golf streem and other streems work around the globe and will result in MASSIVE weather changes (which we see the signs already with more frequent and more intense storms and bad weather situations). This will result in lower food production due to storms ruining the harvest of big areas etc. etc. etc.

The planet will heal once we have caused our own extermination. Until then, the next generations will have to cope with problems our grandfathers, fathers and us caused.
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Actually it was my reply to The Sock`s reply to my original post regarding a new Ice Age .........

He mentioned that we as a species survived the last Glacial Maximum , and since then we have been enjoying the benefits of global warming for the last 12,000 years .......... ( which I have no cause to argue with so I posted a " like" ........... ) ............

( Sorry about the wanton name checking Hamish ..... but for the sake of accuracy and all that ............. :) ...... ) ...........

i agree completely that during a period of global warming the sea levels will rise ...... no argument with that ........... I was more concerned with the consequences of a drastic drop in global temperatures , and how as a species we would cope then .......

Not saying it`s going to happen anytime soon ....... but a pound to a pinch of shit it will come around eventually , even if it is in thousands of years time ......... just wondering how we will cope , if we`re still around .............. I`m sure we will be ....... :unsure: ................



As a matter of interest ( or not ) .......

During the " mini ice age " of the early nineteenth century here in England , the Rivet Thames froze over to the extent that in the town of Reading , they would hold Winter Fairs on the frozen river , the ice being so thick they would even light bloody bonfires on top of it ...........

Maybe the next " real " Ice Age isn`t so far away after all ..............
 
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Unfortunately weather history and narrative is in the process of being completely rewritten or more correctly re imagined.
Everything is an "event" which is catastrophic or unprecedented, cloud bursts have become rain bombs (one forecast storm cell was even called nuclear the other day!!!) and flooding levels are always reported as "going to be" the worst in history. After the event it will usually not be or be the 1st in whatever parameter they wish to use but not quite the flood height of the 1957 or 1898 flood or even 2 years prior (years dependent on area, numbers just used for example). Obviously many floods are higher in some areas simply because of development, tons and tons of concrete placed in waterways and water courses changed to suit development. But let's not let facts get in the way.
Of course the whole climate change terminology has swayed in the breeze for years. Global warming was going to kill us because of prolonged drought and we wouldn't be able to grow food. Quick, build some $b desalination plants off shore, then it rained so mothball them and steer away from the forecast droughts.
Cyclones were going to more frequent and deadly but when that didn't happen a few years ago we were told there would be just more of them but less intense, when that didn't happen and we had a bad one in the middle of a quiet season, it pivoted that we would have less cyclones but they would be more intense. Of course last few years we have had a smaller number on the East coast but they have been at the lower end of the scale so they give up and just say it's just simply climate change and everything is catastrophic (regardless of intensity)!
The insidious nature of this is evident everyday, for example we are just starting our wet season here and after a bit of rain, community chat boards are filled with people new to the area stating they have to fly out tomorrow or pick some one up and asking will the roads be open!! New generations are simply taught that everything that happens is unprecedented and unfortunately our education system has become very closeted and not open to challenge which is ironic!
When I was in primary school in the '60's we were taught that our climate would continue to change as the sun warmed then slowly cooled until eventually another ice age, of course in the far far distance in time.
Of course we contribute to this change and we should change our ways however current "solutions" appear to worry less about actual outcome than just following an ideology.
Plastering our countryside with Chinese solar panels and turbines apparently does not destroy any native specie habitats or cause concern for the green movement whereas building a road is environmental vandalism.
Quantified analysis of actual benefit to climate is a "don't you worry about that" area and "the science is in", but what was the question...........
Mining rare earths also apparently doesn't destroy the environment so approvals much easier but let's not worry too much about disposal after we have processed and used those materials.
We have seen before, the next big thing, good for us, save the planet etc etc, years later becomes the latest environmental disaster. Can anyone already envisage the bulldozers piling up the obsolete EV's into storage dumps when technology changes or just not supported anymore and disposal is an issue.
(Discussion / arguments on this topic usually take a very binary form, (yes / no, good/ bad etc) but that simply detracts from some pretty basic issues and points worth exploring)
Future generations may just shake their heads at the lack of clarity or questions asked because of governments around the world being driven by ideologies and the biggest concern - businesses coming up with the solutions which usually gives them open cheques.
Follow the money will always provide some clarity on what is going....
🏃‍♂️- I wasn't going to say anything but couldn't help myself...........🙇‍♂️
 
Following on from The Great Storm of 1703 ......... is the Lynmouth Flood of 1952 ........

Only 34 dead this time , when nine inches of rain fell in 24 hours ....... sending a cascade of water down the River Lyn from the top of Exmoor .....

100 buildings destroyed , 38 cars washed out to sea ........ and as well as the 34 dead , another 420 were made homeless ..........

You can just imagine Justin Rowlatt ... ( Climate Editor for BBC News ) ...... going to sleep at night praying for another Lynmouth ......... ( it`s been 74 years now after all ... ) ....... something he can turn up and report on , something he can really get his teeth into ....... something he can attribute to "climate change " ...........

" Climate change " ....... not just a reality , but an essential media buzzword as well .........

Lets just stick " Climate change " into the broadcast whether it`s appropriate or not .......... It`s a bit of bad weather after all ......... I expect it`s down to climate change really ..............

I expect he feels really cheated that nothing like Lynmouth has come his way on his watch ...... ( Only kidding Justin , if you`re reading this ... . ;) ....... ) ......


I was going to mention the 1966 Aberfan disaster , which was also instigated by heavy rainfall ......... ( " climate change " anyone ? ) ....... but seeing that could be considered in bad taste , I won`t ...........


Nothing against "climate change " itself of course ......... I`m just worried that the willingness of some to associate it with every weather hiccup that comes along could start to give it a bad name ..........


Of course , I blame our grandfathers , fathers , and us ............. :whistle: ..............
 
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