A Tale of Two Titties

Tippie said:
How long since it was serviced? Might just need a new spark plug. They will just hook it up to the laptop though and if that doesn't find a faulty sensor they give it a clean bill of heath. How long had it been sitting, what was the weather/temperature?
Keep riding it and see if it keeps happening.
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It was served about three months ago at a local shop here in Bathurst, they constantly tell me they are not BMW specialists so I may have to take it down to Sydney 🤔
Vince said:
The first time I rode an injected bike I was told DONT TOUCH THE THROTTLE, for a cold start. It seems the computer said NO.
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I don’t normally need throttle to start her Vince but since she was struggling to turn over I did which is how I got to the idea that I probably flooded her (I just thought she was a bit cold). I went for a ride on another bike and came back after about an hour and that’s when I tried starting her again (just like normal) she did start, sluggish at first then the engine started smoking and I panicked and switched her off……
 
Hi Nadia - 'condensate' is a product of combustion, esp whilst running on the rich mixture needed when starting the bike. Think of it as water (though it is a chemical brew - acidic in nature). As this condensate boils off, it will produce white smoke (steam if you like). So start her up again and see if the white smoke goes when the exhaust gets fully hot. Condensate puddles at the low points in the exhaust system and then either boils off, or is ejected via gas flow forces.

Ever followed a car, pissing water out of its tailpipe? That is condensate - and the car was recently started.
 
Tippie said:
How long since it was serviced? Might just need a new spark plug. They will just hook it up to the laptop though and if that doesn't find a faulty sensor they give it a clean bill of heath. How long had it been sitting, what was the weather/temperature?
Keep riding it and see if it keeps happening.
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Brass monkey cold, only a couple of days since last ride and no previous issues, the local shop in Bathurst always tell me they don’t have a BMW computer and it’s been a few years since I’ve taken her down to a Sydney BMW workshop.
Dellortoman said:
I'd be very surprised if a 2010 BMW has carburettor induction. Pretty much everything was fuel injected by 2010 to meet emission standards.
I just googled the specs and it confirms fuel injection. It's difficult to flood an injected engine, but I suppose it's possible if the plugs are fouled.

A white cloudy emission coming out of the exhaust could be smoke or steam. If it hangs in the air for a long time and smells like smoke, then it's smoke. If it dissipates quickly, then it's steam.

Smoke is an indication of oil in the cylinder. That would explain the difficulty in starting too (oily spark plug). But how it got there is the question you need to answer. Has anyone worked on the engine since you last started it?

Steam is an indication of moisture in the engine, either from condensation or coolant leaking into the cylinder.

Check the oil and coolant levels and appearance. If they're normal, start it up again and let it warm up. If the cloud clears it may be ok. It could have just been a bit of water vapour from condensation. If it continues to blow smoke (or steam), then you have a problem that needs further investigation.

If either the oil or coolant look abnormal (milky appearance in oil or an oily scum in the coolant) then you could have a blown head gasket.

Let us know how you get on. Folks here aren't Laverda snobs. We're happy to help solve any problem.
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Smoke coming from the engine not the exhaust pipe. Thanks Dellortoman
Haggis said:
Hi Nadia - 'condensate' is a product of combustion, esp whilst running on the rich mixture needed when starting the bike. Think of it as water (though it is a chemical brew - acidic in nature). As this condensate boils off, it will produce white smoke (steam if you like). So start her up again and see if the white smoke goes when the exhaust gets fully hot. Condensate puddles at the low points in the exhaust system and then either boils off, or is ejected via gas flow forces.

Ever followed a car, pissing water out of its tailpipe? That is condensate - and the car was recently started.
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Thanks Haggis, I don’t think it was coming from the exhaust more from below the tank and mainly (R) side when viewed from riding position. Mind you the fuel tank is actually under the seat in this model 🙏 N
 
Struggling to turn over, as in very slow on the starter motor? If so the battery is not up to the task and volts dropped too much for ignition etc, then when you came back it was not so cold, as well as the battery had got a rustling when you had previously tried to start it. Have the battery checked, local shop should be able to do that. Don't worry about the smoke if it just happened this one time.
 
Tippie said:
Struggling to turn over, as in very slow on the starter motor? If so the battery is not up to the task and volts dropped too much for ignition etc, then when you came back it was not so cold, as well as the battery had got a rustling when you had previously tried to start it. Have the battery checked, local shop should be able to do that. Don't worry about the smoke if it just happened this one time.
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Terrific thanks Tripple will do and I’ll let you know how I go and I can’t thank everyone enough for your help and support and for not publicly laughing at my mechanical ineptitude 🙈
 
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Nadia said:
I don’t think it (smoke) was coming from the exhaust more from below the tank and mainly (R) side when viewed from riding position. Mind you the fuel tank is actually under the seat in this model 🙏 N
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Oh. That's an entirely different thing to smoke from the exhaust. You did actually say in your initial post on the subject that the smoke was coming from the engine (not the exhaust). Apologies for the misunderstanding. Ignore previous advice to start the bike and see if exhaust smoke clears.

I also recall you described it as having an acrid smell like hot rubber. That sounds very much like the insulation on some part of the bike's wiring has been cooked. Most wiring is protected by fuses so excessive current caused by a fault (eg. a short circuit) will normally just blow a fuse rather than cook the wiring harness. But high resistance at a connection somewhere can cause excessive heat and cook insulation without the fuse blowing. A small bit of burnt plastic can produce a lot of smoke.

The starter motor cables are not fuse protected though, so if you were cranking the engine for a long time, the electrical cables to the starter motor could have overheated. If the insulation is damaged and shorting against the frame somewhere, it could be a fire hazard, so you really need to check it out before trying to start the bike again.

Bearing in mind your self-confessed lack of technical expertise, this sounds like a job for someone with knowledge of vehicle electrics. But you can do some visual checks yourself. If the cable to the starter motor is visible, have a look to see if the plastic insulation appears to have been heat damaged.

If the starter cable looks OK, take off the tank and seat (or whatever covers the working parts of the bike) and check for burnt or melted insulation on wires where they enter/leave the wiring harness. Also check the cables where they connect to the battery. Excessive resistance at the battery terminal connections can also cause overheating, especially while cranking the starter motor.

Hopefully it's something easily fixed like a poor connection or a heat stressed starter cable, and not a completely melted wiring harness.
 
I understood that it was exhaust smoke too, which is not altogether unusual after a lengthy attempt and not wanting to fire up. Nadia said that it later did start, but smoked after starting. Nadia, did the bike seem ok and was rideable after starting? After it warmed up did it start and run as normal?
 
Eurocycleguy said:
We're all inept at something(s) some more than others, some don't know it, some won't admit it. The gracious ones are the ones that kindly assist.
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Kindly assist- as have so many on this forum, I can’t tell you all, how appreciative I am of this second incredible show of generosity this group has shown me 🙏 Thanks Team Laverda
Tippie said:
I understood that it was exhaust smoke too, which is not altogether unusual after a lengthy attempt and not wanting to fire up. Nadia said that it later did start, but smoked after starting. Nadia, did the bike seem ok and was rideable after starting? After it warmed up did it start and run as normal?
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No it did not start normally nor did it run normally Tipple. Ahh this is terrible, I admit defeat on this 🙈 a mate of mine has agreed to pop it on his trailer with some other bikes he is taking to Sydney tomorrow - so she is off to the doctor’s but I will let you know her diagnosis and prognosis. N
 
Dellortoman said:
Oh. That's an entirely different thing to smoke from the exhaust. You did actually say in your initial post on the subject that the smoke was coming from the engine (not the exhaust). Apologies for the misunderstanding. Ignore previous advice to start the bike and see if exhaust smoke clears.

I also recall you described it as having an acrid smell like hot rubber. That sounds very much like the insulation on some part of the bike's wiring has been cooked. Most wiring is protected by fuses so excessive current caused by a fault (eg. a short circuit) will normally just blow a fuse rather than cook the wiring harness. But high resistance at a connection somewhere can cause excessive heat and cook insulation without the fuse blowing. A small bit of burnt plastic can produce a lot of smoke.

The starter motor cables are not fuse protected though, so if you were cranking the engine for a long time, the electrical cables to the starter motor could have overheated. If the insulation is damaged and shorting against the frame somewhere, it could be a fire hazard, so you really need to check it out before trying to start the bike again.

Bearing in mind your self-confessed lack of technical expertise, this sounds like a job for someone with knowledge of vehicle electrics. But you can do some visual checks yourself. If the cable to the starter motor is visible, have a look to see if the plastic insulation appears to have been heat damaged.

If the starter cable looks OK, take off the tank and seat (or whatever covers the working parts of the bike) and check for burnt or melted insulation on wires where they enter/leave the wiring harness. Also check the cables where they connect to the battery. Excessive resistance at the battery terminal connections can also cause overheating, especially while cranking the starter motor.

Hopefully it's something easily fixed like a poor connection or a heat stressed starter cable, and not a completely melted wiring harness.
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I was afraid you would say that - she’s off to the Big City doctor tomorrow - electrical thingies, fuses all to much for my little tool kit, I’m hanging up my spanner 🔧
 
It's a pity you don't have a friendly electrical guru in Bathurst who could make a house call.
If I lived nearby, I'd offer to have a look at it - not that I consider myself an 'electrical guru', but I can fix most things electrical.

BMWs have a reputation for being reliable, but I've had to sort electrical issues on several mates' Beemers. They seem to do electrical things a little differently to everyone else, which makes maintenance a bit more difficult and costly than it could otherwise be. As an example, you'll find a bunch of non-standard electrical relays on BMWs (the factory must have had them made to order). Of course, on older bikes, those special relays are now no longer available, so you have to work around the problem by re-designing the system to do the same job using standard "off the shelf" relays.

I've never been much of a BMW enthusiast. I've never ridden one that wasn't boring as bat shit, but I've only ever ridden the boxer twins. Maybe the Rotax engined singles are a bit more exciting.
 
Good watch indeed! Bear in mind that a boxer BMW prepared for the racetrack has sweet FA in common with a road bike.
The often quoted R90S that Helmut Dähne raced was in fact a conglomerate of parts he put together, without any support from BMW.
 
bazzee said:
For excitement on a BMW boxer twin, check out Troy Corser on a BMW R57:
cheers,
bazzee
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I laughed out loud when Troy Corser overtook John McGuinness and tapped him on the back as he passed...:ROFLMAO:
Outstanding racing, especially on old bikes, but when the visor goes down, the red mist goes up! :D
 
Taking bets on the issue with bimmer, my 10 cents is on... reads like starter motor shorted commutator segment or segments, perhaps a broken graphite brush, worst of all, perhaps worn out brushes...possible metal contact on commutator.... then it does not sound or run correctly when it starts... that is not a starter motor problem...Mmmmm pensive look here, looking for Dr Watson to assist... is this a Rotax bimmer?

Now you have insight Nadia ( maybe always did ), gal or bloke cannot have too many bikes, Yar Yar we crash the bike, no problem, we get another from the shed.... at one time i had 7 road registered bikes at the same time.... glory days once.. j.
 
Keep up Jon. We've already established that it's a Rotax. :)

I've actually got a BMW (airhead) starter motor in my car, waiting to go back to its owner. It would spin but not engage the flywheel ring gear when the starter button was pressed. I took it all apart, cleaned some dirty gummy grease out of it and reassembled it with a light grease on the shaft bushes and pinion gear. Checked the brushes while I was in there. Plenty of length still in them. Pinion throws out OK and it seems to have plenty of torque. I applied Clem's test procedure of trying to stall it with a piece of wood. I could stall it pretty easily, but then discovered that my test battery was pretty knackered - 10V dropping down to 4V when motor was spinning (it's an old car battery that's destined for the recyclers). I hooked it up to the good battery in my car and it revved twice as fast. I couldn't stall it with the Clem test. It just chewed the wood up and spat it out. 12.6V dropping to 10.6V when loading the motor, which seems reasonable to me. Hopefully it'll work when re-installed.
 
Mmm, and there I thought it was me who watched the elderly Auto Sparky who was the foreman at Argus Electrics sited at Falcon St Crows Nest since the 1930s using my starter motor cog as a wood router on a piece of 100x 100 pine to test its ability to grunt out toque instead of falling on its face sometime in the late 1980s after doing whatever he did to fix it. I had just returned from a ride to Melbourne and was well sick of bump starting the bike with luggage. It was pretty shocking to watch, but it's a great test to check it worked well. On second thought maybe it's a test used by lots of technicians worldwide and not just in Crows Nest back in the 1980s. BTW that great old Shop is long gone, they were a full-service shop including rewinds and all sorts of long-dead services, the family now runs a Battery World Franchise in Brookvale. They do some old-world Auto Sparkying on the side.
 
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