This bloody bike. 1976 3CE

[Robin Webster]

Sorry I bought it, I’ve been chasing issues since it went pop, bang on 13 July.

I’ve replaced battery 32Amp, RR, Plugs, safety switch solenoid, starter solenoid and bought an Ignitech system with coils from the factory.
Nothing.
With advice from this forum I looked at the Impulse Cam on the end of the crank and it was just rotating freely. Secured that and the bike started but due to a moany neighbour I switched it off and waited for the next day. Nothing, not a peep.
Gave up and got a motorcycle auto electrician to take it away. A few days became a week, a week became a fortnight which became a month. No reply to texts or calls. Six weeks gone by and he tells me he is in hospital. I leave it a week and after I phoned him AGAIN I get a text saying he will phone next day. Nothing.

A few days later I borrow my wife’s car that has a tow hook and take a trailer to his workshop accompanied by my boy. He’s there and says he has lost the feeling in his left arm and it could be a couple of months before the feeling comes back. OK says I, and I take the bike away.

He has had a bit of a fiddle with the electrics and it starts and stops on the kill switch. But, it won’t rev.
Open the throttle and nothing happens regarding revs although the carbs are opening. Occasionally it pops and farts and if you open the throttle too much it stalls.

Is it the advance and retard? I have a Mac so have the problem plugging in to the Ignitech. Just bought the connecting cable so need to borrow an old PC.
Is it the carbs? The throttle slides were not even, middle open 5mm, the outside two fully closed. I’ve done my best to get them even but run out of adjustment. Could be the internal cables have stretched. Could it be the jets or floats? Who knows.

Anyway, after I’ve watched first practise at Phillip Island ten hours late I will have another look.
Bloody thing.
Robin

 

[pf1]

Take it down to Ged Shorten. It can't be that difficult to fix.

 

[rocketonarail]

Have you tried running it with the petrol filler cap open ? ........ Or checked the tap / carb banjo filters ?

 

[piranha-bro2]

Ah, the old Ignitech and PC-only chesnut. Life would be a lot easier for many if they just farmed out their software to someone who could programme it to work on a Mac. Whinge over.

Carb function sounds bloody awful - back to square one there, Robin. But sounds electrical to me. First thing I'd do would be to put a strobe on it and observe what's happening as revs increase. Insufficient voltage to run the ignition system is a distinct poss. If you have some basic elec knowledge a multimeter can also tell you a lot.

 

[TeddyG]

Sounds to me like it's either the electricals, or carbs, or both. To eliminate the carbs, check the cables and clean/synch the carbs and check that the jets are the correct size per the manual.

 

[Robin Webster]

Have you tried running it with the petrol filler cap open ? ........ Or checked the tap / carb banjo filters ?

I’ve Replaced everything!

 

[Robin Webster]

Ah, the old Ignitech and PC-only chesnut. Life would be a lot easier for many if they just farmed out their software to someone who could programme it to work on a Mac. Whinge over.

Carb function sounds bloody awful - back to square one there, Robin. But sounds electrical to me. First thing I'd do would be to put a strobe on it and observe what's happening as revs increase. Insufficient voltage to run the ignition system is a distinct poss. If you have some basic elec knowledge a multimeter can also tell you a lot.

Thank you but I can’t get the revs to rise!

 

[Robin Webster]

Sounds to me like it's either the electricals, or carbs, or both. To eliminate the carbs, check the cables and clean/synch the carbs and check that the jets are the correct size per the manual.

I think I’ve stripped the carbs three times so far and I buy things regularly from DucatiPaddy (UK DellOrto bits supplier/guru). Beginning to suspect the cheapo K&N cone filter rip offs. Going to try and run it without filters after I’ve watched Philip Islandks Friday sessions.

 

[redax5]

Are you using the generic Ignitech ignition map to try and run the bike?
If so is probably your issue, they make great systems but cannot design a decent ignition map from what I have seen so far

Can send you a map if you wish, should work if you understand how to access their box

 

[Rob]

The throttle slides were not even, middle open 5mm, the outside two fully closed. I’ve done my best to get them even but run out of adjustment. Could be the internal cables have stretched.

Bent operating arms means the adjuster screws can't compensate.

 

[Robin Webster]

Are you using the generic Ignitech ignition map to try and run the bike?
If so is probably your issue, they make great systems but cannot design a decent ignition map from what I have seen so far

Can send you a map if you wish, should work if you understand how to access their box

Thanks for the offer Red, they put their Laverda map in the ignition but I’m a Mac man so have no access to it currently. I’ve ordered the cable and will try to borrow a PC lap top and have a look. Not really computer literate but might come back for advice.

 

[Robin Webster]

Bent operating arms means the adjuster screws can't compensate.

Thanks Rob, I’ve had the arms off and straitened them but the was not enough adjustment on the No.1 carb. Had to bend it more to get the adjustment I’ve got. The gap is better but not equal which makes me think the slide cables may have stretched, they could be 48 years old after all. There are score markings on the slides and I’m thinking about replacing the lot but they are £62 each from Paddy, assuming he has any. If the bike won’t respond to the throttle could that be accelerator pump diaphragm? There is a squirt from the acc.jet. I’ll have the jets out too to make sure they are clean. Back to the garage, shame the cricket is over for today on the radio.

 

[piranha-bro2]

Ignore the accelerator pumps Robin - absolutely no chance they are your prob. You can remove them completely and you will have zero issues getting it to rev.

I agree with Red that you need to check what's going on with the Ignitech unit. Be aware that if you want to access the software there are potential hurdles (see my post in Technical re connecting Ignitech to PC). Two main things to get right: 1. a suitable USB to Com cable and 2. the driver for that particular cable. Once you are into the Ignitech program checking, changing or loading files isn't too difficult. If Red sends you a file, you simply double click the file folder in the top left menu and it will appear on-screen. You must then click the 'Program' top right menu to instal it into your black box; if successful you'll get a message top right saying something like 'Unit and PC are identical'. Job done.

Can you at least start the bike and put a strobe on it to see at what degrees BTDC it's firing at idle? Personally I don't think carbs even miles out would prevent the bike from revving beyond idle - they'd have to be really blocked up in just about every orifice. I would remove the air filters though - you never know, they may be blocking the small aperture that allows air into the pilot/idle mixture system.

 

[Robin Webster]

Ignore the accelerator pumps Robin - absolutely no chance they are your prob. You can remove them completely and you will have zero issues getting it to rev.

I agree with Red that you need to check what's going on with the Ignitech unit. Be aware that if you want to access the software there are potential hurdles (see my post in Technical re connecting Ignitech to PC). Two main things to get right: 1. a suitable USB to Com cable and 2. the driver for that particular cable. Once you are into the Ignitech program checking, changing or loading files isn't too difficult. If Red sends you a file, you simply double click the file folder in the top left menu and it will appear on-screen. You must then click the 'Program' top right menu to instal it into your black box; if successful you'll get a message top right saying something like 'Unit and PC are identical'. Job done.

Can you at least start the bike and put a strobe on it to see at what degrees BTDC it's firing at idle? Personally I don't think carbs even miles out would prevent the bike from revving beyond idle - they'd have to be really blocked up in just about every orifice. I would remove the air filters though - you never know, they may be blocking the small aperture that allows air into the pilot/idle mixture system.

Thank you, I will follow your advice and let all know how I get on. I’m a bit scared of computers!
I read your other post and think I have bought the correct cable with drivers preinstalled.

 

[piranha-bro2]

The cable has a chip, no driver. The PC gets the driver. It must have the correct driver loaded into its innards for it to allow the cable with the chip to transfer info to-from the Ignitech unit to-from the PC. Similar to any computer (even a Mac) requiring a printer driver.
For us Mac nerds it’s all a bit odd. Maybe some more modern PCs don’t need it. Dunno.

 

[TeddyG]

Hey Robin,

I feel your pain- if you want a comprehensive Dell Orto rebuild and synching guide email me ted@tedgadecki.com for the PDFs. I realize the ignition could be the culprit, but this would help rule out the carbs.

 

[Robin Webster]

Hey Robin,

I feel your pain- if you want a comprehensive Dell Orto rebuild and synching guide email me ted@tedgadecki.com for the PDFs. I realize the ignition could be the culprit, but this would help rule out the carbs.

Thank you for the kind offer but in the UK we have a guy called DucatiPaddy who is a Dellorto guru and all information for parts and tune ups is available on his site. ;-)

 

[Robin Webster]

My head has melted. I can feel my brain trickling down the outside of my ears.

FINALLY got every thing installed and talking to each other.

Saturday the bike would start but would not rev above idle, the slides are lifting when I twist the throttle and there is fuel. Tank cap open or closed makes no difference. Today after running the Ignitech programming screen the bike will no longer start.

I saved the screens but could not send them to Ignitech as my IP did not like them and I assume they were too big to publish here.

Last resort I have photographed the screens and I put them here for you to look at. Can you tell anything from them? Have I shown the correct screens?

Oh, as a PS the graph showed 35 degrees advanced.
Beyond my ability.
Robin

 

[piranha-bro2]

Those pages look very unusual to me, Robin. I'm guessing when you 'Programmed' you've created something that simply won't work. It may be that with a different 'Bike' type chosen it sets a default, but mine below as examples (using a 'Classic' setting) look totally different - and yours look totally different from other pages for triples that I've seen from Red as well. I'm sure he can tell you more with regard to the settings he uses for triples, including sending you an .ign file that you can simply load and Program to install into your unit. The more you play with the settings the more you learn - and the more you realise how it's not particularly intuitive.

 

[Robin Webster]

Those pages look very unusual to me, Robin. I'm guessing when you 'Programmed' you've created something that simply won't work. It may be that with a different 'Bike' type chosen it sets a default, but mine below as examples (using a 'Classic' setting) look totally different - and yours look totally different from other pages for triples that I've seen from Red as well. I'm sure he can tell you more with regard to the settings he uses for triples, including sending you an .ign file that you can simply load and Program to install into your unit. The more you play with the settings the more you learn - and the more you realise how it's not particularly intuitive.

View attachment 93188View attachment 93189

Thank you for confirming that mine is not right. I have sent the same pictures to Ignitech and I hope they come up with a solution.
When you say load and programme I just have no clue as to what to do. I am sure Red has the solution but I have spent money with Ignitech and the unit SHOULD have come to me pre loaded with the correct settings for my Laverda. All I have done is plug it in. If I load a 3rd parties settings Ignitech can then walk away from the problem saying it is my fault. I’d rather send the unit back to them.

I hope I will get an email today from Ignitech with a solution.