Weird

T.C said:
Thanks for bringing it back to my level CK :unsure:
So far all I got was that John bought a Chinese battery charger:unsure:
Im still confused.....
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No problem Tom.

As I see it: Robs bike has electrical smoke issues.

Nobody knows why, what or how. I feel for the old bugger, but I can’t help because my knowledge on RR, bridge rectifiers (thanks Paul) and Drikkos famous flux capacitors (WhereTF has Drikko gone?) is limited.

So I add a little extra to the equation…… not to make matters worse, but to lighten the subject.

Okay Rob, now we wait until you get the new bits, and…. If the fuckers don’t deliver on time, chuck the rego plate on the 750 and go meet Marty and crew on the SFC.
 
chrisk said:
No problem Tom.

As I see it: Robs bike has electrical smoke issues.

Nobody knows why, what or how. I feel for the old bugger, but I can’t help because my knowledge on RR, bridge rectifiers (thanks Paul) and Drikkos famous flux capacitors (WhereTF has Drikko gone?) is limited.

So I add a little extra to the equation…… not to make matters worse, but to lighten the subject.

Okay Rob, now we wait until you get the new bits, and…. If the fuckers don’t deliver on time, chuck the rego plate on the 750 and go meet Marty and crew on the SFC.
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So far your the only one making any sense Chris :ROFLMAO:
Its not true what the poms say about you....
Thanks for clarifying the electrical smoke issue.
 
While not a gambler as such, whom will book a bet on the next SH530 giving out 13,7V.... yes i know Rob, bystanders are there to "help", seen that all your adult life, why change the mob effect now..... a wry smile here. May well be a support to Rob, take bets on what the actual fault is or even better, the large odds a combination of faults is the root cause.... maybe the payout can be one of Robs many RR's in the shed.... dont know why i feel no shame, insularity is good, vacant look on face here....j
 
You'll have to wait a couple of weeks for an answer John, hope your wrong. 2 components and 6 wires, couldn't get much simplier.
Hence the thread title Weird. The other change was to a Deutsch plug from the shitty block type with spade.
 
Can wait Rob, suns out here, banging away on my tri-cone resonator, on the verandah....life stops for a moment in time... i''ll bet you bet my bet is wrong.... "what" i hear..... grin....j. Somewhat late, you should have told me of another SH530 required, have a few here, can bench test prior to dispatch... never mind as Nirvana claimed...j
 
Ok John, replacement RR arrived and fuck me you were right, only putting out mid 13v
So I tested all 3 with the multi meter as per utube vid.
So here are the result
Meter Red to Batt+ All 3 phases showed OL on all 3 RRs
Meter Red to Batt- 1 RR showed OL OL OL the other 2 ,47 ,47 ,47
Meter Blk to Batt+ 1 RR showed ,45 ,46 ,47 the other 2 ,47 ,47 ,47
Meter Blk to Batt- All 3 phases showed OL on all 3 RRs.

So I'd say one of those RRs is fucked, guess which one? original, Red's, or ebay?
So I'm back to square one. The 3 phases of the stator are still putting out 55-60v AC. @ 5k revs

It's got me totally fucked. A stator, RR and 6 wires, how simple can it bed
 
motoddrob said:
Ok John, replacement RR arrived and fuck me you were right, only putting out mid 13v
So I tested all 3 with the multi meter as per utube vid.
So here are the result
Meter Red to Batt+ All 3 phases showed OL on all 3 RRs
Meter Red to Batt- 1 RR showed OL OL OL the other 2 ,47 ,47 ,47
Meter Blk to Batt+ 1 RR showed ,45 ,46 ,47 the other 2 ,47 ,47 ,47
Meter Blk to Batt- All 3 phases showed OL on all 3 RRs.

So I'd say one of those RRs is fucked, guess which one? original, Red's, or ebay?
So I'm back to square one. The 3 phases of the stator are still putting out 55-60v AC. @ 5k revs

It's got me totally fucked. A stator, RR and 6 wires, how simple can it bed
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Not so good the ongoing lack of progress in the charging system rectification Rob, sorry to see it continuing. As mentioned prior, need extra test equipment to sort this quickly. Your DMM is going to only get you so far. FWIW, your two SH530 will be ok, keeping in mind i am not there, and what i indicate is just that an indication.

The yt diode test is almost useless, only checks for problems in the six pulse rectifier, or a shorted shunt scr. Be one in a million chance of diode issue in an SH530. These SH530 are incredibly tough, suspect a hybrid ceramic fabrication technique.

How are you measuring the stator 3 wire output AC voltages? Use technical terms you can lookup on the WWW, for background. Stator will be a Delta configured device, each wire is called a line output, you measure relative line voltage to another line voltage. All line outputs must be free of metal frame connection, ie zero or low voltage output any line output to engine casing when motor is running. Dependent on DMM dual ramp measuring internal or true RMS DMM, should be about 80Vac line to line open circuit, dont do that OC for more than quick measurement. Your AC do not concern me overall however. post this in segments ( pc is back deleting typed text to cursor )....more as i get a chance.
 
iis_iis said:
Not so good the ongoing lack of progress in the charging system rectification Rob, sorry to see it continuing. As mentioned prior, need extra test equipment to sort this quickly. Your DMM is going to only get you so far. FWIW, your two SH530 will be ok, keeping in mind i am not there, and what i indicate is just that an indication.

The yt diode test is almost useless, only checks for problems in the six pulse rectifier, or a shorted shunt scr. Be one in a million chance of diode issue in an SH530. These SH530 are incredibly tough, suspect a hybrid ceramic fabrication technique.

How are you measuring the stator 3 wire output AC voltages? Use technical terms you can lookup on the WWW, for background. Stator will be a Delta configured device, each wire is called a line output, you measure relative line voltage to another line voltage. All line outputs must be free of metal frame connection, ie zero or low voltage output any line output to engine casing when motor is running. Dependent on DMM dual ramp measuring internal or true RMS DMM, should be about 80Vac line to line open circuit, dont do that OC for more than quick measurement. Your AC do not concern me overall however. post this in segments ( pc is back deleting typed text to cursor )....more as i get a chance.
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As a one time test, connect the charging system up as designed. Use your DMM on AC Volts, suitable fixed range, over 100V at least. With motor running, check the stator loaded line voltages, at the RR ie Line to line, should be all 3 measurements close, mean close, say a 10V difference in one is a pointer. Need to know your new battery is fully charged and at least 12,5Vdc ignition off. Let me ( Laverda mob ) know of results. Meanwhile i will have a think....j
 
Thanks John,
so I can assume that the 2 SH530 RRs are working as they're suppose to. The new one I got from Red is obviously buggered which was telling me that last week as it showed no output compared to the SH530 which showed some output.
I assume the DMM is digital multi meter and I checked the stator firstly using the Ohms setting measuring each combo AB AC BC and got the same numbers, something like 10 whatever. Next I did the same with motor running with meter in AC setting and got 15volts at Idle and 50-60volts at 5K.
The brand new battery has 13.3v
Thoughts of buying a another stator but reluctant as I now have over $160 in 2 RRs which 1 is fucked, according to my meter and the fact it didn't put out any charge, and now from what your saying the RR more than likely isn't the problem so I'm flying blind.
Not having your expert knowledge and test equipment I can only eliminate problems by replacing them as I did with the RRs
If it ain't the stator or RR fuck me what else can it be!!!!
 
motoddrob said:
Thanks John,
so I can assume that the 2 SH530 RRs are working as they're suppose to. The new one I got from Red is obviously buggered which was telling me that last week as it showed no output compared to the SH530 which showed some output.
I assume the DMM is digital multi meter and I checked the stator firstly using the Ohms setting measuring each combo AB AC BC and got the same numbers, something like 10 whatever. Next I did the same with motor running with meter in AC setting and got 15volts at Idle and 50-60volts at 5K.
The brand new battery has 13.3v
Thoughts of buying a another stator but reluctant as I now have over $160 in 2 RRs which 1 is fucked, according to my meter and the fact it didn't put out any charge, and now from what your saying the RR more than likely isn't the problem so I'm flying blind.
Not having your expert knowledge and test equipment I can only eliminate problems by replacing them as I did with the RRs
If it ain't the stator or RR fuck me what else can it be!!!!
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Testing the RR "yt style" is done on the diode test function, not resistance range. Reasons for that i will not go into here, tedious would be one word. Just in case it was not clear. DMM resistance range testing, of a stator is by and large useless, other than an open circuit connection or winding. DMM= Digital Multi Meter correct.

There are two functions in electricity, Voltage and Current. You will be needing to measure both with a fault like yours. Really as you have a working knowledge of mechanicals, then use that skill to bring about a resolution to the problem at hand, that is change one item at a time until your cure the fault. Being blunt, workshops run around $150 an hour in a well provisioned workshop, skill and equipment. Know money can be a hurdle in all our lives, yet $160 is not a lot of money to spend to date there.

Your correct in assessment that there are few parts in this fault, at worst you will have spares on hand ( not like spending money in a commercial workshop on labour ). At best you will locate the fault and gain experience, fraid it is spend the money Rob, known good stator would be next in regards major item to change.

Pulled a whole working motor down once for excessive smoking, only to find it was leaking gaskets on the header pipes union at the cylinder head.... in contrast yours is a very quick swap out parts process.... not sure that helps, not a lot else to add. j
 
When I tested the RRs I did have the ohms setting in diode mode, [triangle with line through it] so pretty sure that was correct.
So now I need to source another stator then.
Mechanicals I can understand but electronics are way above my intellect!
Back onto ebay to look for a stator from a ZZR250. Do you know if that stator was used on other models of Kawasakis? just to widen my search oportunities
Cheers
 
GPX also same Stator, some other brands also, though my recall is poor, and i did not record what crashed bikes used the ND 280W stator. If you have the time, do the loaded test i indicated in above posting.. see if i can requote here.

"" As a one time test, connect the charging system up as designed. Use your DMM on AC Volts, suitable fixed range, over 100V at least. With motor running, check the stator loaded line voltages, at the RR ie Line to line, should be, all 3 measurements close, mean close, say a 10V difference in one AC line voltage is a pointer. Need to know your new battery is fully charged and at least 12,5Vdc ignition off. Let me ( Laverda mob ) know of results. Meanwhile i will have a think....j
 
Thanks for the link Davo
Will give them a call
So back in the shed and reconnected the original SH530.
Meter sez 13.8 at revs
So John, in laymen's terms as I understand it
Stator load lines are the 3 yellow wires, started the motor and DMM in AC mode I tested the 3 yellow wires ac, ab, bc
All 3 readings showed
13v give or take 0.2 fluctuation @ 5k
Battery is 13.2v
Have I interpreted you correctly?
At 13 volts I seem to be missing a few volts when your talking 100v
Probably not doing it right.
Brought another stator last night so another couple of weeks before that arrives. If that doesn't sort it there'll be a Motodd on the market soon after!!!
 
A clarification from John please. Are you asking Rob to check the "line" (ac wires from the stator) voltages with the system all connected up to the rectifier/regulator, by accessing the wires? I have only ever checked these wires with the stator fully disconnected from the rest of the electrical system.
Rob, if it is any consolation, plenty of modern bikes have similar problems to yours and mechanics generally are unable to fix them other than by replacing everything in the charging system, and give up if that doesn't fix it. I reckon when you get it sorted you won't have trouble selling the spare rec/regs. It is problems like this that give us the steep learning curves, but I agree, no fun when you are stuck in it.
 
Hi Lee,
Interesting what you say about testing the stator wires connected to RR and not connected to RR as I got different readings
15v at idle 50v at 5K, unconnected and 13~v when connected. The readings were pretty consisted across al 3 combinations.
I'll just have to wait till the new stator arrives and go from there. Not overly bothered about having a spare RR on the shelf, it was only $60 off ebay.
Lots of new stators on ebay from China for around the $70 mark but TC will be pleased to hear that I went with a 2nd hand original off a ZZR250 for slightly more dosh. Fuck China!!!
With all the stationary running testing outputs it now sounds like it has fouled a plug
 
Tippie said:
A clarification from John please. Are you asking Rob to check the "line" (ac wires from the stator) voltages with the system all connected up to the rectifier/regulator, by accessing the wires? I have only ever checked these wires with the stator fully disconnected from the rest of the electrical system.
Rob, if it is any consolation, plenty of modern bikes have similar problems to yours and mechanics generally are unable to fix them other than by replacing everything in the charging system, and give up if that doesn't fix it. I reckon when you get it sorted you won't have trouble selling the spare rec/regs. It is problems like this that give us the steep learning curves, but I agree, no fun when you are stuck in it.
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Hello Tippie, correct, your first paragraph. Run a risk of creating an inter winding shorted turn ( insulation failure ) if open circuit stator line outputs are being measured for no load voltage. Needs must at times, it is for best practice to be avoided. HTH j
 
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