Weird

motoddrob said:
Thanks for the link Davo
Will give them a call
So back in the shed and reconnected the original SH530.
Meter sez 13.8 at revs
So John, in laymen's terms as I understand it
Stator load lines are the 3 yellow wires, started the motor and DMM in AC mode I tested the 3 yellow wires ac, ab, bc
All 3 readings showed
13v give or take 0.2 fluctuation @ 5k
Battery is 13.2v
Have I interpreted you correctly?
At 13 volts I seem to be missing a few volts when your talking 100v
Probably not doing it right.
Brought another stator last night so another couple of weeks before that arrives. If that doesn't sort it there'll be a Motodd on the market soon after!!!
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Much is about how measuring equipment does the actual "measuring" you do not get something for nothing in electricals and electronics. Ok Rob, you have a loaded line to line voltage of 13Vac, to get a light loaded DC from the RR you multiply the 13Vac by square root of two, 13 times 1.414 equals 18.38Vdc. You cannot have this peak DC on a loaded system, you have a "ripple" on the DC output in essence. This lowers the actual RMS value of the DC to between 13Vdc and 18.38Vdc ( 0,6V loss across the rectifier diodes each ) also needs to be allowed for. Probably lost most of you by now, apologies... like going for a ride with a "lead" rider...plus of minus...grin.

My inclination is Rob you have a shorted turn in a winding, or more. This circulating current in that turn, lowers one of the line ac voltages and produces a noticeable "dip" in the RR rippled DC output, especially under a load, like a battery connected. You see a firm restricted output voltage at some 13,8V and it never goes higher. Kills batteries over a longer period with chronic undercharging. Really a current demand issue, hence my missive that several types of test equipment is required to diagnose. Stop here, as you have a replacement stator on the way.

**** for the interested, the above i actually used a 4 channel power industry australian made oscilloscope to observe an ND stator with under volts RR, in operation. 4th channel i could see the actual RR DC output loaded ripple dip mentioned, also how i derived the isolated Bosch OEM two coil charging circuit ( published here in the library ) when a HKZ is converted to two coil charging system, confirming my calculations and best configuration geometry, HTH j
 
motoddrob said:
Yep you have lost me John, but I get a gist that the stator is fucked.
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At the risk of being alarmist, the replacement ND stator should be ok, from a working ( albeit thrown at fence ) motor....all the used ones i bought were good, the many they were. Onwards marched Rob, into the great unknown.... cannot have bad luck all your life, not possible....j
 
Nah I didn't Davo, trying to fix for the least amount of $$ I need to spend, the Maddington guys wanted twice as much as an ebay unit I brought that looked in really clean condition. For me living here it doesn't mater if it comes from NSW or Perth it still takes at least week to arrive.
You don't need to be a courier for an overnighter in Walpole. Welcome anytime
So now it waiting for the next installment of the charging saga.
 
Went to install the new stator and one of the 3 M5 holes in the ally mounting bracket stripped. Foiled again!! So now waiting for a M5 helicoil repair kit to arrive. Fuck me if it's not one thing it's another. Everything I buy online is 2 weeks away. The price you pay for living in paradise
 
The worm turns glacially....... the days that never end.... you ride'em you fix'em Rob.... just dont say "what next"....your wish may be granted Cinderella.....j
 
motoddrob said:
Went to install the new stator and one of the 3 M5 holes in the ally mounting bracket stripped. Foiled again!! So now waiting for a M5 helicoil repair kit to arrive. Fuck me if it's not one thing it's another. Everything I buy online is 2 weeks away. The price you pay for living in paradise
Click to expand...
It will all be worth it soon Rob. You have a lovely bike so it's worth the pain.
 
Rob, does it still do those monster tank slappers, very entertaining they were in the day..... like my kettle corning on the exhaust pipes, MG mob enquired was i ok... you get used to it, my reply...lift up a bit 'til it corners on the centre stand leg only.... j...
 
So finally able to fit the new stator and got it all wired up, started the bike and disappointed to see only 13.7volts. swapped the RR and once again only 13.7v. So 3 RRs and 2 stators later I have the same output I started with.
Looking like the Motodd is gunna end up as a static display!!!
 
Have you got a volt thief in the system Mr Stealer of Berries? It sounds like one of those jobs that come into the workshop and there is no way you can charge for the time it takes. Gotta be getting close now though Rob. Can you isolate the charging system from the rest of the bike by jury rigging it with just the alternator, rec/reg, and a battery?
 
Not all is lost Rob, keep going, you have removed some of the usual suspects that are known for charging issues.

Ok assuming the latest stator is working as designed, can look at other areas of technical matters. You have a tough one there Rob. Some auto elecs are more accomplished than others, much about the mindset of fault tracing.

If possible locate a second multimeter, even an old moving coil is going to be of use. Connect two multimeters as the same time direct onto the battery terminals. FWIW, setting up a test configuration takes a lot of time and effort, there are no shortcuts. While a fault may not appear to make sense, it will when finally found. There never has been a mystery reason for a fault, it will come down to some real mechanical or electrical cause.

With the charging system configured as normal, engine running, at idle, turn on the headlight high beam and press the brakes ( stop light ) also one side of the blinkers ie load up the whole electrical system, note the change in battery terminal voltage. Slowly raise the motor rpm and note the readings from the multimeters, no need to rev past 4krpm. 3300rpm is my test point when checking alternator voltages. Little chance i suppose you having access to a non invasive current clamp meter, ie DC hall effect amp meter, the more test equipment connected the less mystery. Lets see what your readings are as demand allow.

You will be the charging system Guru by task end, onwards and upwards j.
 
Oh and just to be cautious, change the 9V battery in your existing multimeter, some DMM's have read errors when the internal battery is less than able to supply correct operating voltage, including high volts on the Chinese PP3 batteries ( Aldi "alkaline" a notable ) at some 9.5V these batteries cause low battery alarm sound warning in certain smoke detectors, triggers on high volts also, had me going for 20 minutes why the SD kept alarming with new battery installed. FWIW am cogniscent that you have a different type of battery installed as the problem first arose.... thinking out loud.... HTH J
 
Have reread the thread and you have my sympathy in trying to fix this wretched fault, Rob.
Just a couple of points -
1. Your reading of 13.7v rings a bell - exactly what I saw measured on a series 2 Jota last weekend with one of the three yellow alternator wires broken. I know you've replaced the RR and alternator though (presume this replaced all the interconnecting wiring and joints?), as well as measured AC output from the alternator.
2. Read that you open circuited the RR DC output to measure volts without battery connected. I've never done that - but Andy queried it and John reckons likelihood of RR failure is low. So that leaves the battery. I understand it's a LiFePO4 (?). Wonder if it has a faulty battery management system which is clamping the volts down? That is a complete stab in the dark - but may be worth temporarily hooking up an alternative 12v battery?
Good luck
 
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